Steel 6.5 Carcano case question


#1

Hopefully Vittorio or some other specialist will toss me a bone here . . . .

The late war 6.5 with LSC - e.g., “SMI 944” - was this produced by the Nazis (or collaborators) after the Italians surrendered and overthrew Benito? Or does it represent production toward the end of the Italian operation of the arsenals?

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#2

I cannot directly answer the question about the 6.5 Carcano with steel case and headstamp “SMI 944,” but perhaps I can add to the information. I believe these were made after the Germans officially took control in Northern Italy. I have a lacquered steel 7.9 x 57mm Mauser round with the same headstamp, which is scarce, and an Italian friend has a very rare 9mm Parabellum round with the “SMI 944” headstamp as well. These are all believed to be made under German control, along with the famous “qrb RM 44” 9mm Para headstamp from Pirotecnico di Bolgona, an odd headstamp containing a German factory-designator three-letter code, but with the Italian-style Inspector’s initials R.M. (Rubino, Mario).

Italy made Peace with the Allies in September 1943, but that was still with 2/3 of the country under German and Italian-Fascist Control, that territory sometimes referred to as the Sal


#3

Thanks yet again for another cogent and informative response, John; deeply appreciate your insights!

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#4

[quote=“Iconoclast”]Hopefully Vittorio or some other specialist will toss me a bone here . . . .

The late war 6.5 with LSC - e.g., “SMI 944” - was this produced by the Nazis (or collaborators) after the Italians surrendered and overthrew Benito? Or does it represent production toward the end of the Italian operation of the arsenals?

.[/quote]

The SMI factory (Societ


#5

Thank you for the expanded information, Vittorio!

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#6

[color=blue]Hi
the 6,5 Carcano like the whole Italian production in steel, began to surely have been produced since 1942 therefore before the following German occupation to September 8 th 1943
As it regards the famous one “qrb RM 44” produced with the case in brass a well rarer exists “also qrb RM I945” in steel case
And’ very probable therefore that her “qrb” is not Bologna, that didn’t exist in the anymore '45 but really her “Baschieri & Pellagri” (powder production) near Bologna
From certain news (ex workers) the production of cartridges "court " is sure in 1945
Hi
Giovanni[/color]


#7

I’m sorry to add some confusion probably but you may like to hear that there are 7.92x33 brass draw pieces existing which have the head stamp “qrb 44 1 M”.


#8

Hello all,

and this 7,9 Mauser head stamp?

Dutch


#9

Thanks for the additional information, Giovanni!

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#10

Hi
regards the kurz with headstamp qrb they exist photos that they show the existence of it, but it very probably deals with a test regarding around 100.000 pieces with case in brass
Sure tests of a definitive production don’t exist
as it regards 7,92 Italians they have been produced around the years '30
The production is taken back then in the years 1943-1944 with case first in brass and then in painted steel, the first ones with flat fund the seconds (steel) with grooved " fund " similar to that of the 8 breda
Gi


#11

Steel cases (lacquered) have been produced in Italy from the last months of 1941, as the Italian Government had obtained from the Germans the possibility to buy the rights of manufacture for the process.

As long as the 6,5 mml Carcano is concerned, it can be ascertained that the rounds dated from after the date of the Italian capitulation, September 1943 were mostly made under German control in German occupied areas, both for the Republican troops and the Wehrmacht.

I also saw at Bill Woodin’s a board from POLTE-Magdeburg, with a draw set of copper-plated steel Carcano cases, but if they were probably tested, they were never adopted by the Italian Army.

We find in collections many 6,5 mm M1891 with lacquered steel cases (of course), but also some 9 mm Para, 7,82 mm Mauser, 12,7 mm Breda, 8 mm Breda, 13,2 mm Hotchkiss and also 20 mm Mauser MG 151.

Some of them, like the scarce 9 mm Para , 7,92 mm or 20 mm Mauser were probably only made in the North, under German control, but the other calibres were manufactured on both sides, from 1941-42 onwards.

Philippe