Steel cased Egyptian 7.62x39


#1

Today i came across a round of what is clearly steel cased Egyptian 7.62x39.

I have seen many thousands of rounds of Egyptian from many years and factories and had never seen a steel cased Egyptian till today. Ill get my arabic number chart out and see if i can get the year.

Here is a picture:

I have found a few more, they are all pretty ragged even by Egyptian standards.


#2

me262, what a great item! Congratulations!


#3

after looking at my arabic number chart it has two numbers on it, 62 and 27, so that would be factory 27 1962 production from my notes and memory.


#4

I’ve been told that the cases were made in Poland for the Egyptians. Compare the color of the lacquer to known Polish specimens from the same time frame and you will see a close similarity. I’d have to double check my notes, but I think only Tracer and API were loaded into the steel cases…
Your round appears to be a tracer.

AKMS


#5

I have just checked my few Egyptian rounds and found this steel cased API.


#6

It is getting better and better!


#7

Jim, that is a nice specimen. All the steel cased Egyptian I have, had or have seen were pretty beat-up. No doubt battlefield pickups coming here via Israel.

Hope someone can confirm the Polish connection. I’ve also seen LS cased 12,7 out of Egypt that I presume to be of similar origins…

AKMS


#8

I have asked back to Poland and got this answer:

7.62x39:
Poland sold in the 1960s a production line for steel cased 7.62x39. The cartridges here in Question look similar to Polish ones but the laquer is slightly different (“stretched”?). Poland never crimped primers and the case head is pretty much rounded at the edges unlike Polish cartridges.
Later on French machinery for brass cases was purchased.

12.7x108:
Poland never made 12.7x108 steel cases so the origin of the Egyptian steel cases must be a different one.

I hope the information above is correct and is shedding some light on the subject.
My thought on Egyptian 12.7x108 steel cases is so far:
Steel cases were so far only known from China, Pakistan (with Chinese background I think), Czechoslovakia and Romania so it is likely that one of these countries is the supplier of the production equipment. Going by the green color it might be China then.


#9

When did Egypt start 7.62x39 production? On the steel cases they look to be made pretty similar to the Iranian 7.62x39 Bosnian contract stuff in the brass cases In terms of the crimp and all on the primer. its a dead ringer for the Iranian 3 stake crimp, and WW2 german steel cased stuff, also very similar if not the same as Syrian as well, but that could just be by chance. The laquer is so easily manipulated i dont think it should be taken into account. but things like the metal forming dies and crimp stakes are tools/toolmarks that are very unlikely to be changed in a production lines end product no matter where it is moved, who runs it, or what materials it is fed to produce things with. The primer stake itself looks like something strait from WW2 Germany, but it is exactly the stake used on the Egyptian brass cases from the same factory as well, but the dies are obviously pretty diffrent between brass and steel cased egyptian from the same factory 27 and the same timeframe. Also, why would/did the Egyptians stop making and not adopt steel cases in mass when they are obviously cheaper and more economical, while perfectly viable for 7.62x39 as well? I can see for example Yugoslovia justifying it, because they had their sights set on higher Quality controll and the like, but an outfit like Egypt having lines for steel cases in 7.62x39 and not using them in favor of brass is beyond me. just thinking out loud here.


#10

[quote=“EOD”]7.62x39:
Poland sold in the 1960s a production line for steel cased 7.62x39. The cartridges here in Question look similar to Polish ones but the laquer is slightly different (“stretched”?). Poland never crimped primers and the case head is pretty much rounded at the edges unlike Polish cartridges.
Later on French machinery for brass cases was purchased.
[/quote]
EOD,
my Polish 21 63 ball HAS this unusual well rounded head, not as intense as me262’s though, but it may occur.
I’d like to point out that having no primer crimp or having it done at that time was no big deal. We must not expect the cases were made and finished all in the same “big integrated machine”. Instead we can rather assume that case production took place in independent steps and that the primed and primer sealed cases were thrown into another machine to have the crimp applied. And that may well have been the very same machine used for brass cases until then.
More interesting I find is the fact that a production line was sold in the 60s. If you compare Jim’s headstamp with any other Egyptian cartridge at that time you will see they are different. By character style and size. And most of all, the letters are separated by a dot. My believe is that Egypt got those cases made in Poland.