Stendebach's Ideal

Stendebach’s Ideal 20 ga slugs.
Any information on maker, manufacturer, date etc would be appreciated.

Stendebachs Ideal
Stendebachs Ideal a
Stendebachs Ideal b Stendebachs Ideal c

Bob, if you use the search function, there are several pics and descriptions of other Stendebach bullets. Made by Stendebach Geschossfabrik at Augsburg. Company founded in 1902.
Here a movie about a russian Mayer (copie of the old Stendebach) Slug, but inside the movie it shows Stendebach Box with companys name as maker on it…and also the newer designed Stendebach II (from which I do not knew the maker…possible Italy)


have fun
peter

Gunmaker and designer Friedrich Stendebach of Augsburg (and Suhl) was known for his rifle locking mechanism, bullet designs and even a cartridge case design. Several gun-design patents were registered by him (see below).

Friedrich Stendebach, in Suhl" is mentioned as having a Gun and Bullet Factory in 1899 with the trademark “STENDA”. By 1906 he also had a bullet factory in Leipzig-Gohlis, His business held some patents on special break-down rifles developed before 1910. He also had a reputation for using hunting and sporting rifles to shoot HV cartridges. His bullet design’s went into the 1930’s.

From before 1903 (see 1903 Ad and the 1908 Genschow catalog) he began marketing his Stendebach “Ideal” shotgun slugs which used “self-spinning” designs. These continued into the 1920’s and included: M24, M25 and M31 types and were direct competitors to the famous Brenneke Slugs which ultimately proved more successful.

At the start of WW1 a “Stendebach & Co.” existed with the “& Co” partner being Gustav Kersten. They made guns using Stendebach’s and Kersten’s designs. This was after Stendebach had retired from the army. Franz Jaeger in Suhl had decided not to make guns of his uncle’s designs, preferring his own inventions. Stendebach & Co. went into receivership in 1916, the receiver being Gustav Loesche of Magdeburg (see Loesche).

Apparently Stendebach then teamed up with the former “maker” of Kersten guns, as there was a “Vierordt, Stendebach & Cie. GmbH” with branches in Frankfurt a.Main, Säckingen, Gmünden a.M., Suhl and finally Augsburg.

Stendebach also developed bullet designs for sporting rifle also known as the “Stendebachs Ideal”. These started with the Model 28 which was patented in Germany in 1927/1928 as D.R.P. 456738. There was also the Model 1930 which contained an internal steel ball and more pointed tip (see images). An RWS factory drawing of this shows that it was designed in 1928 but was not available until 1930.

In 1929, his M28 bullets were loaded in an entirely new cartridge case designed for a Stendebach Repeating rifle with cases produced by RWS:

8x71 Stendebach (W43)

The 1933 GECADO catalog shows that both M28 and M30 Stendebach bullets were also factory loaded (see image) into a number of other sporting rifle case types (referred to as “Stendebach- Einheitspatronen”) including:

8x57 J (M7)
8x57JR (M2)
8x60 (W36)
8x60R (W38) - see packet image
8x75R (M62) - known sometimes as the 8x75R Stendebach

Note that as the 8mm Stendebach bullet is actually an “S” caliber (ie 8.2mm) so that when it is loaded into the above case they become the “S” version and should only be used in rifles chambered for the “S” versions of that cartridge.

****************************************Other Stendebach Patents - see image
DRP 141652
DRP 196552
DRP 196836
DRGM 290620

STENDEBACH-HS

**************************************According to http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=286479

Apparently Friedrich Stendebach’s action designs, though very strong, were not very successful, reflected by the rarity of Stendebach patent guns and the confusing and muddled history of his many companies. “Friedrich Stendebach, Beiersgrund 3, Suhl” Gun and bullet factory, is mentioned from 1899 on, trademark “STENDA”. By 1906 he also had a bullet factory in Leipzig-Gohlis. At the start of WW1 a “Stendebach & Co.” existed too, making guns to Stendebach’s and Kersten’s designs. The “& Co” here was no other than Gustav Kersten, retired from the army. Remember, Franz Jaeger had refused to make guns to his uncle’s designs, preferring his own. This Stendebach & Co. went into receivership in 1916, the receiver being Gustav Loesche, Wilhelmstr. 13, Magdeburg, founded 1873 by father Alfred Loesche, “Hofbüchsenmacher” = gunmaker to some court since 1911, mostly a dealer in guns and ammo as he advertized a “gunsmith shop inhouse”. The business relations Loesche-Stendebach were intensive before and after the failing of “Stendebach & Co.”
Apparently Stendebach then teamed up with the former “maker” of Kersten guns, as there was a “Vierordt, Stendebach & Cie. GmbH” with branches in Frankfurt a.Main, Säckingen, Gmünden a.M., Suhl and finally Augsburg. To add to the confusion, there was also a STENDA-Werke GmbH,Amtmannsweg 37, Suhl, owner Max Stendebach, in the 1920s. Augsburg seems to have been the last station of Friedrich Stendebach. Here he offered in the 1930s “original Stendebach guns”, Mauser actioned rifles and cartridges and bullets of his own design. For his Mauser rifles he had his own proprietary cartridge, the forgotten 8x71 Stendebach Ideal M30 with his own “Ideal Universal” bullet, a complicated Softnose with a hard and a soft lead core, separated by a steel ball. Stendebach’s most successful design, in fact the only one still remembered, was his Stendebach Ideal shotgun slug.

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as the box shown in that picture in the movie shows clearly “Geschossfabrik gegründet 1902 = Bulletfactory, FOUNDED in 1902!!” this date must be correct, as otherwise he will not show this on his boxes which he sells…this box is from the Augsburg factory, as stated on the box…
how this fits in, into your timetable given above, I dont knew…
pp

WBD
Thanks for an outstanding piece of historical research,they do not come like that every day.
I have 2 dummy rounds in 8+57J made by RWS according to what is written they must be
Stendebach bullets they seem to be the same but than they are not a close look is required.
Sherryl

WBD
Would you know whom else Stendebach delivert bullets to I hava Swiss round by M+FA with
bullets all similar looking even one from DWM in 9.3+62mm with a bullet called STOP RING
but it sure looks like one of those Stendebachs.I have been finding some more RWS cases
with these ought bullets.
SHerryl

Peter, thanks for that additional info- I have added it into my notes.

I notice that there has been discussion on this before : Stendebach-ideal-slug-box-and-bullets-cal-32

Sherryl - I suspect that both of your examples are loaded with standard RWS bullets and are not Stendebach bullets. Your first example is similar but is HP. Here is a 8x57J from RWS with one loaded (From Heinz Held via the ECRA Dataviewer):

Here are the two 8mm types (M28 on top, M30 on bottom) top is described as FMJ flat top bottom HP but very narrow mouth:

image

WBD
Take your word for it however the tought occurd to me cince these round are dummys a
different type of bullet might have been used,I have one in 7+64mm that on is a blank it
has the same type of bullet also by RWS.of course its all only assumption
Sherryl