Stiletto Systems AP and "rocket" cartridges

No real magic in blowback pistols for high power cartridges. most Chinese made pistols from before the end of WWII were in 7.65mm B or 7.63mm Mauser were blowback. They made copies of both the FN Brlowning M1900, the Little Tom and the Mauser M1910 chambered for 7.63mmM, in addition to many local designs. In general, these pistols in 7.63mmM were larger than the originals with a heavier slide. I have seen some quite small Chinese pistols in 7.63mmM and they inevitably have a lot of metal in the slide, up to almost a half inch thick on the sides of the slide. Sufficient weight in the slide and a proper barrel length and a blowback will handle the 9mm Luger and the 7.63mm Mauser cartridges. I have seen some of these that are selective fire and quite well used with well banged slide stops, but otherwise sound. Most pistol ammo in China in the 1920s-1940s was imported I am told.


. I do not have comparisons on hand but think there are 9x19 subsonic bullets with longer friction areas

yes, but subsonics have velocities about twice as low as this one, so actual barrel wear with them would be noticeably less IMHO. And there’s still issue of the additional pressure from inside, pushing the bullet walls stronger and deeper into the rifling

It would be interesting to see the actual chamber pressure of these rocket bullets.
Given the propellant is a solid block and burning at a slower rate than normal propellant (by the nature of this constuction) the pressure should be same as normal or even less.

I wish some Stiletto guys would read our questions here and answer them.

I tried to refrain from entering into this discussion, but can no longer resist it.
In my view it is not a rocket but a hollow projectile, which of course gives the opportunity to have more space available for the propellant. The use of “ram-jet” (which is an air-breathing!!! jet engine) for alleged rocket bullets in my view makes all claims of Stiletto very, very suspect. Not to mention the P 38 look of the pistol drawing(!) shown. If any design is NOT well suited for unduly high pressures, its the P 38 of which I have seen a number of broken specimens.
Lew brought up the “impulse” system proposed by Heinrich Langweiler. This is and remains a theoretical concept. According the the literature I know about it, to work as designed, it requires a propellant burning much faster than any nitrocellulose based propellant known.
Last not least we have the alleged presssure measurements. The problem with this is that the wall of the hollow bullet is in the way of any CIP/SAAMI measurement. It simply can’t be done. The only possible alternative I see would be the NATO method of measuring in front of the case mouth. Alas, in standard ammunition the pressure at this point already has passed its maximum value. Case mouth measurements are fine for routine quality control but cannot tell us anything about maximum pressure.
In my view, we waste our time with Stiletto and I fully share mpopenkers scepticism in this regard.

Jochem, I noticed the “ram-jet” term too and my assumption is that it is just poor English as so often observed.
In particular technical and specialized vocabulary is a big problem with many. The further east the worse.

Some independent testing of these rounds sure would give a better picture than what a manufacturer is claiming.

We have several very knowledgeable forum members here who are living in Ukraine. Their restraint from posting anything in this thread speaks additional volumes to me about the whole Stiletto thing, which greatly reminds me of another Ukrainian fraud firearms company from 1990s, the KB ST (Конструкторское Бюро Специальной Техники, КБ СТ).

To my understanding there is 2 volumes in this.
vol 1 is people not knowing anything or not being able to defend the claims
vol 2 is people knowing much more because info was trusted to them and they can not publish it without ruining their connections

I know well what I am speaking of (no, I have no connections to Stiletto).

I kindly was forwarded an older Stiletto document which was online before and is now gone from their website.

Here excerpts on the 9x18 “rocket” cartridge.




So, they show maximum bore pressure well in excess of approved standard. Why anyone should be surprised with their higher velocity, especially as no bullet weight is given?
And running ammo which generates pressures 50-100% higher than standard in older guns? No. Thanks, but no.

I think the intention of these supposed “rocket” cartridges is to only be used with their pistol.