Strange 7.92


#1

a friend of mine told me when he shoots 7.92 Tracer ctges, some of them blow up when they are far away.
Are they special tracers or is it coming from their age?
JP


#2

Some tracers (“ranging tracers”) are specifically manufactured to do this, and they can be arranged to function in a couple of ways (some blow up when the tracer element burns into a charge, some change trace colors as they pass a certain range, etc.) But, you also get a certain number of “muzzle bursts” or faulty ammunition with almost ANY type of load, so the only way to know for sure is to determine what load he was shooting.


#3

Thanks
you are right but it is no easy for me to check because he is living at the opposite part of France.

I don’t have anymore any documentation relative to modern ammo.
What are the tips to recognize the self destroying 7.92 ctges?
Thanks
JP


#4

If it was German ammunition, it would likely be the exceedingly rare SmKUbmZ (Spitzegeschoss mit Stahlkern - Ubungsmunition mit Zerleger) “Practice pointed steel-core bullet with self-destroying element” load made for the Luftwaffe during 1941/42; these were marked with a red primer annulus and a 20mm long black tip (see p.49 in Kent’s “German 7.9 Military Ammunition”, but he notes that the only way to be sure is to x-ray the rounds to make sure they aren’t just regular tracers with a too-long point ID).


#5

It is perhaps that , because the guy has a lot of planes parts (he has made a table with a Messerschmit engine !).
I will ask him to make some pictures of the ctges he shoots.
Thanks
JP


#6

JP–If they turn out to be the SmKUbmZ (Spitzegeschoss mit Stahlkern - Ubungsmunition mit Zerleger) “Practice pointed steel-core bullet with self-destroying element” rounds, tell him to stop shooting them. They are among the rarest of the 7.9 x57 loadings. I do not know what the current value is, but it would be quite a bit. The description of what happens when he shoots them leads me to believe that they are this load.


#7

Oh yes, don’t worry.

I met him because I bought some shotshells from him.
After talking he told me he has Spencer ctges in boxes coming from the 1870 French war. This is good staff.
And also some new staff from WWII (ammo, aso) and even german para helmets, cammo jackets and even cammo suits !
(this is 1000 better than a special tracer !)

In fact he was living excatly in the place in Normandy where two German armies retired in a long and narrow corridor , 2.5 milles width (at the beginning!) called the corridor of the death.

I asked him to make some pictures of the ctges he has.
JP


#8

Those rounds might literally be worth their weight in gold, JP, considering that the SmKUbmZ is so rare; they were only manufactured for a short time, and were dropped because the failure rate (the bullet failing to explode after 2000 metres) was too high. After 60-plus years of storage, that failure rate will only have gotten worse, but if they ARE SmKUbmZ’s, it would certainly explain the firing behaviour. Here’s a scan of Kent’s book relating to this round, showing the marking and a cutaway of the bullet:


#9

Those rounds might literally be worth their weight in gold, JP, considering that the SmKUbmZ is so rare;

Thanks for the page SDC.
Let’s wait to have pictures.
They simply can be only tracers too old with failures.

For example he told me he has 7.9 boxes with Cyrillic writting (boxes been not the German ones but closed with kooks).
Perhaps it is not cyrillic but greek writting (they look the same for most people) because there was a lot of such boxes in Normandy.

Same about the German paratrooper cammo jackets and suits.
I don’t think there was any German paratrooper in Normandy.
And the jackets and suits are rather for SS .

JP


#10

Perhaps these are incendiary tracers and they are striking something, like the ground, causing them to “explode”. If these are the rare German rounds, they would be exploding at around 2,000 meters? Hard to see what is really going on at this distance. We really need more information!

AKMS


#11

This round shout be the replacement from the lS.

They did not stopped producing because of the failure rate (it was under 2%) but because it was too expensive and complicated to produce for a practice round.

Even a so called