Strange color of 9x18ПМ primer

Never see 9x18ПМ with black color on primer before. I think that this is cartridge with
steel core bullet (9 Пст гж (9х18; 57-Н-181С)). But color on primer should be dark blue (same as color on bullet). That why I have some doubts about the type of the cartridge.pm%201 pm%202

In the 1960s there was lots of testing of PA and CM colors as you may have noticed.
I think these are all along the line.

Thanks. Am I right with type of the cartridge?

I think it is the PST as you wrote.
In case you have more than one just cut it and check.

Ok. Have only one. Shot it in special device for shot off cartridges and discover the bullet.

Just some color examples (missing the green one).
Source: internet.

2 Likes

Actually it appears like your PA is more purple than black compared to the one in the photo I have posted above.

Thanks. Your photo just shows that colors could be different. That is all what i need to know. Discovering of the bullet will dispel last my doubts about type of the cartridge.

Great, let us know what you have found out.

Necessarily

Ivan - Yuruzan began production of the 9 x 18 in 1956, following production at Lugansk from 1953 until 1956. X-Rays of Yuryuzan (Code 38) 9 Makarov cartridges, done some time ago at Woodin Laboratory, indicate that from the earliest production until the end of production in 1989, their rounds have a steel core. I have a sectioned one from 1960 that shows the core. We have found no lead-core bullets in their production of 9 x 18 mm. I have every date from Yuryuzan in my collection, although my 1957 date is only on a military dummy round, the type with two cannelures in the case for identification.

It is interesting that Russian manuals on the PM continued to show the lead-core bullet variation of the 9 x 18 at least until the 1963 edition. Why the drawing in these manuals was not changed earlier is unknown to me. I have original manuals for 1950, 1955, 1957, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1982 and 1986. I have a photo-copy of the 1953 manual as well. These are all the editions that I know of.

Edited to comment on cartridge content of Soviet Manuals on the Makarov Pistol.

John Moss

1 Like

I think material from this topic will be useful:

2 Likes

Results. Steel core bullet. Same as bullets from cartridges 38-65 and 38-66 (with red color). Thanks for help.

pm4

What has happened to the case???

As I mentioned, Yuryuzan (Factory 38) never loaded, at least on a production basis, the lead-core bullet in the 9 x 18 mm PM Cartridge. The only loaded the steel-core type. Lugansk (Factory 270) loaded the lead-core projectiles initially, only changing to the steel core in 1956, as I recall.

Pictued below on the left is a Yuryuzan cartridge, headstamp 38 60 with steel core, and on the right a Lugansk cartridge, headstamp 270 E (code for 1954) with a lead core bullet. The steel-core picture is not good, and I apologize for that, but the mushroom-shaped core is visible.

Of course, even the steel-cores are sheathed in lead, as the scratched in numbers in Ivan’s good photos show.

John MossMAKRuss8x18 Lead %26 Steel cores

image

Hooke - I am totally surprised at the headstamp you have shown. I assume from the context of this thread that the headstamp shown was on 9 x 18 mm Makarov, and not 7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev (which I have in my collection)?

In over forty years of researching this caliber, including many sources in the former USSR (including you, of course), I have never seen or even heard of this 1953 code-dated 9 x 18 mm cartridge from Yuyruzan. I have, in my collection, the headstamp 38 K from 1956, which corresponds with the last year of production during the era of the USSR from Lugansk. With a 1953 headstamp, this cartridge likely would have, if 9 x 18 mm, a lead core.

All I can surmise is if this cartridge headstamp shown is 9 x 18 mm, that Yuryuzan was intended to be the producer of the 9 x 18 mm from the first year of production of the cartridge after it was official adopted in 1951, and that was in 1953, and then production, for whatever reason, was shifted to Lugansk.

Please confirm the caliber/case type of the 1953 Yuryuzan cartridge shown. Unfortunately, I cannot read the Russian-language title. It would be good if you can confirm that it is truly 9 x 18 mm, and NOT 9 x 25 mm, from actually seeing the cartridge itself, and not just from some publication.

Thank you.

John Moss

Yes, 9x18

It is likely that both plants (38 and 270) produced cartridge P (lead core) at the same time

…deleted…

Drawing a wooden box from a book made with the real thing (but the possibility of an error is not excluded)
image

1 Like

If I have some doubts about bullets or handmade changes in discovering cartridges - I always use special device for shot off cartridges. This device helps shot off cartridges from 5,45 mm to 11.43 mm + 20x70, 16x70 and 12x70. It really helps to provide shooting without troubles and risk of gun damage.

I have never seen or heard of the “38 N” (sorry, I can’t do Cyrillic on this forum) either. I have 38 K in my own collection. So now, it seems, only 1954 is missing for Yuryuzan.

Incredible news for me! I will have a lot of re-writing to do in my Makarov notes. I don’t know of anyone else who was aware of these pre-1956 Yuryuzan Makarov cartridges.

I agree entirely with you that it IS likely - almost postively - that Yuryuzan did use lead-core bullets prior to 1956.

Thank you for the information. It is the most important on this issue I have received in years. The disappointment is that I thought I had every single date for Yuryuzan 9 x 18s, which is now proven incorrect.

Better to know though, than be ignorant about them. Thank you Hooke!!!

John

1 Like