Strange projectile


#1

Diameter 37 mm
Length 190 mm

the fins are spreading out when the projectile leaves the barrel
On the bottom the small hole is 10 mm diameter.

Do you know what it is ?

Thanks
JP



#2

Nobody has some idea ???
jp


#3

JP,

The projectile appears to have a detonating fuze, and is obviously for a smooth-bore weapon.  Perhaps it's a barricade breaching shell for a 37mm tear gas gun.

Jim


#4

Perhaps a mortar sub-calibre training projectile? It looks like a propelling blank would be press-fitted into the bottom of the base, along with a slot to allow it to be pried out for the next time it was going to be re-used. I know items like this were used in US service for training on mortars, but I wouldn’t think that the folding fins would be necessary. Is there any sort of firing-pin or impact mechanism in the nose-piece or at the bottom of the probe?


#5

Hi Jim !
It is too old I think to be for a 37 mm tear gas gun.
And it is pure steel , so very heavy.

Hi SDC !
I think like you : a mortar sub-calibre training projectile.

"It looks like a propelling blank would be press-fitted into the bottom of the base, along with a slot to allow it to be pried out for the next time it was going to be re-used."
I thought that also but didn’t find any ctge going inside!
(no shotshell at least !)
I tried with a Brexia (6.5 Carcano base) but too big in diameter.
(Why ?? Because we have lot of Italian staff overhere and it is not French !)

"Is there any sort of firing-pin or impact mechanism in the nose-piece or at the bottom of the probe?"
No ! It must be inert for training I think

Thanks to you both
JP


#6

JP,

One more possibility for your projectile. There are pneumatic (compressed air operated) “guns” used for avalance control in some mountain areas. The projectiles I’ve seen for them are fin-stabilized as the gun is smooth-bore, and the projectile contains a substantial (for it’s size) HE charge which detonates on impact. Perhaps your projectile is an inert practice shell for one of these weapons.

Jim


#7

[quote=“Jim O’Brien”]JP,

One more possibility for your projectile. There are pneumatic (compressed air operated) “guns” used for avalance control in some mountain areas. The projectiles I’ve seen for them are fin-stabilized as the gun is smooth-bore, and the projectile contains a substantial (for it’s size) HE charge which detonates on impact. Perhaps your projectile is an inert practice shell for one of these weapons.

Jim[/quote]

Thanks Jim !
it is perphaps that.

  1. Do you have names of companies making such pneumatic avalanche control guns ?
  2. To be more accurate I found this projectile a long time ago (1976).
    Do you think that such pneumatic guns were already existing in these days ?

JP
PS: I just received the old big cases factory drawings you wanted.
I will scan them this week end.


#8

JP,

I’m sorry, but have no additional information on the pneumatic avalance control cannons. A photo of one of the shells was sent to me by a law enforcement bomb tech, along with a description of it’s characteristics and use. I suspect that this type of avalance control weapon has been in use for years, but can provide no proof. In the US, some military cannons have been and still are being used for this purpose, with HE ammunition. I believe that the pneumatic cannons are designed to replace these, as they are smaller, lighter and cheaper to use. Additionally, the ammunition is readily available at much lower cost. Perhaps someone that reads these postings can provide more information on the pneumatic cannon and their ammunition.

Thank you also for letting me know about the drawings. I look forward to seeing them!

Jim


#9

In issue Number 369, October/November 2007, page 7 of the New Zealand Cartridge Collector’s Bulletin, there is a brief article with a picture of a projectile much like the one questioned here. There is quite a bit more to the overall cartridge than Jean-Pierre shows, and it is somewhat different, although sure looks to be along the same lines.

It is identified as a World War I “Message Sender”. It was submitted by Jim Buchanan of England. It seemed to be used in conjunction with a 10 gauge paper shotgun shell, and a REM-UMC “NEW CLUB” headstamp is shown in conjunction with it, although it is a drawing and not a photo as is the projectile’s components and the launching shell itself. There is really no other information about it other than that the one shown is american.

J-P - you might want to look into this possible identification of your projectile. The similarities of the one shown in the article are far greater to yours than are the differences.

If anyone wants me to, I can, I suppose, given the good nature of both Jim Buchanan and the great guys of NZCCC, scan and have Joe post the picture on this thread without us getting sued!

John Moss


#10

Hi John!
A picture would be interesting.
JP


#11

J-P: I have scanned the page and forwarded it to my friend Joe for posting. It should be up in a day or two.

John Moss


#12

Page from NZCCC Bulletin already discussed on this thread. No further comment needed. All credit to Jim Buchanan and the New Zealand CCC, and to Joe for posting this for me.

John Moss

Note*

Left click on photo for full size image.


#13

Hum!!!
it doesn’t look similar:
the weight first, the diameter and complexity also.And the material.

But the idea it can be a message container fitting on a 37 mm case is interesting.
thanks
JP


#14

Could Jean-Pierre’s device be a similar message sending device designed to be launched from a flare pistol? If so im sure it could give one a bit of an aching wrist! Is this projectile too heavy for this use to be likely?


#15

J-P - sorry it doesn’t look similar. It sure looked similar to me. Since similar munitions objects are made by many companies and many countries, I don’t go by weight, material (brass, steel, aluminum, nickeled brass, copper - you can make the same basic object out of lots of different materials), or size - there are many different calibers in different countries, and these objects, regardless of what they are and whether or not the two are even for the same purpose, could be made in many different sizes and minor shape variations simply to accomodate the arms of the countries they are made in.

I looked at the general design - multiple front-attached fins or tails - whatever you would call the flat things coming from just below the front of the projectile) being the major feature here, it seems to me.

Well, it was worth a try. Certainly an interesting article to show everyone looking at this Forum what they are missing if they don’t belong to various cartridge-related associations, including NZCCC.


#16

[quote=“JohnMoss”]J-P - sorry it doesn’t look similar. It sure looked similar to me. Since similar munitions objects are made by many companies and many countries, I don’t go by weight, material (brass, steel, aluminum, nickeled brass, copper - you can make the same basic object out of lots of different materials), or size - there are many different calibers in different countries, and these objects, regardless of what they are and whether or not the two are even for the same purpose, could be made in many different sizes and minor shape variations simply to accomodate the arms of the countries they are made in.

I looked at the general design - multiple front-attached fins or tails - whatever you would call the flat things coming from just below the front of the projectile) being the major feature here, it seems to me.

Well, it was worth a try. Certainly an interesting article to show everyone looking at this Forum what they are missing if they don’t belong to various cartridge-related associations, including NZCCC.[/quote]

Hi John !

I said it cannot be that because of the weight which is very heavy , about the same as a 37 mm round.
But as I told you, you gave me some idea : message sender.

So till now we have two hypotheses : message sender or practice round.

If you want to put it in IAA or NZCCC it is a good idea.

The fact is it nickel plated can be either original or either added by somebody in order to make it nicer (as many 37 mm rounds in France !!)

JP