Stripper Clip Id


#1

Hello, Can any one identify these stripper clip makers markings?

I might guess that P is for the maker Polte and if so, a WW1 era clip or something else.

Thanks Liberty



#2

The maker represented by ‘FJ’ is unknown to me. It is found on two and three lug clips and with and without a cartouche around the letters.

The maker of ‘P’ is Polte whilst the little winged crescent seems to be a commercial manifestation of ‘DWM’ from the 1920s when ammunition production in Germany was tightly controlled by the Control Commission set up under the terms of the Versailles Treaty. I don’t know if this mark was used to circumvent the Treaty provisions or if it was used with the knowledge of the Commission for commercial sales.

Can anybody else help?

Peter


#3

Hello,

the FJ marking on stripper is identified as German late WW1 in the 2008 study published by the ECRA German branch dedicated to German cartridges from M88 to S cartridges :

This booklet is available through Josef M


#4

How about the flaming bomb marking?

DWM used this marking on their commercial small calibre ammunition, in combination with the brand name ‘Bombe’, to be precise on rimfire ammunition with their Nicorro non-corrosive priming material. The Nicorro primers replaced the old non-corrosive ‘Bombe Zundung’ that DWM had used in the years before as Nicorro performed much better.


(from 1937: Richard Marholdt’s Waffenlexicon)


(DWM .22lr box)

I’ve observed this flaming bomb marking on very large calibre WW1 artillery shells as well, usually with the text ‘Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe’ on the headstamp. I doubt that these artillery shells were Nicorro primed but they could have used the earlier version of DWM’s ‘Bombe Zundung’.


#5

I have a 37x94R Hotchkiss case made by “PATRONENFABRIK KARLSRUSE” in 1903 which also has the markings. I also have WW1 era 37x101SR, 57x224r, 60x64R and 110x505R Cases with this marking.


#6

The ‘Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe’ stamp still puzzles me.

We know that DWM had a branch in Karlsruhe, Baden, Germany where, amongst other items, ammunition was made.

DWM was the result of joining the ‘Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik’ together with Ludwig Loewe’s arms branch in Berlin. This happened in 1896. We all know the DM marking too well, used by the DWM Karlsruhe branch long after the name change.

The Karlsruhe company started as Henri Ehrmann * Cie around 1872 and kept that name until 1878, following a takeover by Wilhelm Lorenz. The new name became “Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik Lorenz”.

In 1889 Lorenz sold the company to Ludwig Loewe & Cie. The name changed to “Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik”, and later “Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken” when it was combined with Loewe’s arms branch in Berlin.

So, was Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe a separate entity, based in the same town?
Or was it part of DM/DWM?


#7

Great information, Thanks for the help.

Regards Liberty


#8

[quote=“Vlim”]So, was Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe a separate entity, based in the same town?
Or was it part of DM/DWM?[/quote]

I’m still interested in opinions (or even better: proof) regarding this question.

The fact that DM/DWM used the telegram address “Patronenfabrik” in the 1880 - 1911 timeframe and that the bomb-logo was also used as a trade mark symbol for their later small calibre ammunition all seem to point towards the theory that DM/DWM and ‘Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe’ were one and the same.

On the other hand, Karlsruhe had a large artillery camp and a military munitions research facility there. So it’s not unlikely that the ‘Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe’ was a military operation which could have used materials supplied by DM/DWM, which again would explain the ‘bomb’ logo.


#9

Wilhelm Lorenz was the owner of the


#10

Dutch,

All very correct, additionally we know that the DM abbreviation was used for many years after 1896.

Wilhelm Lorenz went on to play with a different company after he was worked out of his company. Together with Max Duttenhofer he took an interest in a small engine company, Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft.

The changeover in 1896 was not just a name change but the consolidation of the armament production facilities of Ludwig Loewe & Cie. In Berlin together with the ammunition production facilities in Karlsruhe. Also, the shares Loewe had in other ammuntion and armament companies, like FN and Mauser, were transferred to DWM.

The history of DWM, Loewe and the rest is pretty clear to me, but the problem remains that I have not been able to find a working establishment called ‘Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe’ within the Loewe/DM/DMK/DWM/Etc… fraternity so far.


#11

Still no idea as to who might have made the ‘FJ’ marked clip.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter


#12

[quote=“enfield56”]Still no idea as to who might have made the ‘FJ’ marked clip.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter[/quote]

Peter,

This is not the clip showing on top.
Unfortunetly F.J. is still unknown.

Don’t think yours is a 7.9 Mauser.

Dutch


#13

I’m never certain about these two lug clips. They are exactly the same size as the 7,92 three lug types and the outer lugs are in exactly the same position on the sidewall. The only difference is the missing central lug which would make no difference to the engagement of the lugs in the charger guide on a rifle’s receiver.

Here is the 3 lug version from ‘FJ’

Has anyone ever found the two lug type in a box of cartridges? If so, then what type?

Peter