Stuffers and mocking holes


#1

A large collection which is currently being auctioned off on Gunbroker.com has quite a few STUFFERS.

What is a STUFFER?

If you collect small arms ammo you may not be familiar with this term which is used widely in the world of collecting BIG ammo.

A STUFFER is a cartridge which has the wrong projectile in it just because the projectile fits.

This is quite common in sales of collections by heirs and their agents who look over a collection and stick any projectile into any similar size hole which they find. This can also be quite a problem for GUN AUCTIONEERS who tend to do the same thing.

A 20mm projectile made in Sweden fits nicely into a 20mm case made in Japan and so that is where it goes.

The current collection in mention has had some real flagrant STUFFERS. One inch Nordenfelt with 25mm Italian projectile . No problem that the Italian was made nearly half a century after the Nordenfelt became obsolete. The case for the Italian was sold in a later lot with another wrong projectile in it.

STUFFERS are a real problem for new collectors or buyers who are in the market outside of their field of knowledge.

I have seen many “RARE” items purchased which were STUFFERS.

Knowledge is the best investment in any kind of collecting.

There is a maxim in science that “nature abhors a vaccuum”.
There is a maxim in collecting ammo that “collectors abhor a case without a projectile” .

Best advice for collecting anything; buy the reference materials first. That will save you plenty of money and face. Nothing quite so unpleasant in collecting as showing your collection to someone who you are intent on impressing and having misidentified items and stuffers pointed out. A bad time all around.

In any collector cartridge there are at least 2 holes which when empty stare at you and mock you until you put something in. The big hole at the front is the really bad one but the primer hole is also something in need of attention and these are often the hardest to fill.

Some shells like the German side primed recoiless shells have 3 holes; the front, the rear and the side primer.

The US multi-hole case recoiless are really bad. The entire case is full of holes which after firing look terrible.

It is no surprise that anyone fills these mocking holes with whatever fits.

I have modified my collectors maxim to " ammunition collectors abhor an empty hole". I know I do ! Man, its hard to find 17 and 29mm projectiles !


#2

I would like to point out that CSAEOD has put an incredible amount of work into making various reference materials available to the collecting and historian communities. The originals are scarce to nearly unknown, and would cost a small fortune to add to a library, if you could even find them all!

He modestly won’t suggest you buy all that stuff from him, but I suggest that it would be a very wise investment for the purchaser to stock up on this stuff while it is available.

Then go find some bargains where people have misidentified stuff, or save some money by not buying incorrectly described items.


#3

Thank you. I am converting rare reference material to CD as fast as possible. Many of these are the only known copies.


#4

Anyone need examples of the types of shells mentioned?


#5

What is mocking hole?


#6

“In any collector cartridge there are at least 2 holes which when empty stare at you and mock you until you put something in. The big hole at the front is the really bad one but the primer hole is also something in need of attention and these are often the hardest to fill.”

Just a copy from the original text.


#7

I find all too often that readers often only read the current posts. Many times they do not bother reading the intial or following posts just the current ones.


#8

[quote=“JohnS”]I would like to point out that CSAEOD has put an incredible amount of work into making various reference materials available to the collecting and historian communities. The originals are scarce to nearly unknown, and would cost a small fortune to add to a library, if you could even find them all!

He modestly won’t suggest you buy all that stuff from him, but I suggest that it would be a very wise investment for the purchaser to stock up on this stuff while it is available.

Then go find some bargains where people have misidentified stuff, or save some money by not buying incorrectly described items.[/quote]

I would like to mention that John’s last statement and suggestion has been a great souce of advantage to me and other collectors who have studied the reference materials. Most of my purchases of rare shells over the years have been from DEALERS in such stuff. Most DEALERS have little idea of the real rarity and/or value of the items of collector ordnance which they find and offer for resale.

The on line auction have provided a retail and in some cases a SUPER retail market to these folks.

Establishing a VALUE for any collector item is an ART which includes knowledge and experience. Even with that established the market forces REALLY establish the SALE price NOT THE VALUE.

Recent auctions on Gunbroker have shown prices realized on various items far above any reasonable VALUE while items of REAL RARITY and VALUE went cheap.

In a recent sale a UNIQUE shell and I mean the only one known sold for $130 while a typical Japanese shell which is not rare sold for several times that.

Why ?

MARKET DEMAND not value.

An auction market is a limited market established by who shows up and how much money they have and are willing to spend.

There are collectors who will and can pay $1,000 for an item which most buyers would not pay $10.

If you want to collect ANYTHING educate yourself. That education will pay great benefits for your entire life.


#9

John, I’d like to add to your price explanation. There is another force in play here. I make online ammo purchases for someone abroad. I pay prices I personally consider high comparatively to gun show pricing. But because these items are unavailable abroad and because people from outside of the USA don’t attend our gun shows, for them the price looks normal.
Sorry about mocking holes, it’s my English, I was not sure what and who was mocked. I guess I am thinking of them as “envy holes”.


#10

It’s just my own personal farm-boy opinion, but I think too many collectors look at their collections as an investment rather than a hobby. I often am able to add very nice items to my collection simply because others hesitate to spend more than what they consider the “value”. I’m not one who will pay $1000 for a $10 cartridge, but I can often get that $10 cartridge for $15 simply because many collectors look at it as a $10 investment, not something that will add to their enjoyment of collecting. I realize full well that I will never make any money on items in my collection and my kids will make even less. There is a good chance that much of it will end up in the burn-pit, along with my remains, but that should make those cartridges in your collection even more valuable. ;)

Ray


#11

Investing in a cartridge collection is nonsense.


#12

[quote=“sksvlad”]John, I’d like to add to your price explanation. There is another force in play here. I make online ammo purchases for someone abroad. I pay prices I personally consider high comparatively to gun show pricing. But because these items are unavailable abroad and because people from outside of the USA don’t attend our gun shows, for them the price looks normal.
Sorry about mocking holes, it’s my English, I was not sure what and who was mocked. I guess I am thinking of them as “envy holes”.[/quote]

Those are the MARKET FORCES at work. All markets and the weather are driven by the unequal distribution of goods , services , humidity and temperature.

There are CASES of ammunition in places which would sell for thousands of dollars in others BUT it is not possible to move them there. Move just one piece and it is worth MUCH.

Years ago at the Japanese Winter Olympics there was a shooting event and the winners passed out sample shells at their victory banquet. The Japanese police investigated and confiscated all of them one by one. The Japanese govt. does not like private individuals to own live ammunition or reloadable components.

Many countries are this way AND IT IS COMING to a country near you soon.
Enjoy while you can !