Sub-Sonic Soviet 7.62


#1

I took this pic for another purpose and thought to post it. The LS is 711 64, the CWS is 711 72.


#2

Very nice condition; the marking for these rounds is black over green, and the Soviets had a number of AKM/AKMS rifles mofified specifically for this round; they all had detachable PBS silencers and sight markings calibrated out to 400 metres. One of the weirder “combinations” they put together was the “Tishina”, or “Silence”, a silenced AKMS with a silenced BS-1 30mm grenade-launcher underneath. The below picture of the “Tishina” is from Vitaly Kuzmin’s web-site in Russia, and he has a wide variety of interesting military photos at vitalykuzmin.net/


#3

Nice color tips!!! Never seen these before.

Steve


#4

It was a Happy Time when the USSR fell apart, lots of great cartridges came out of Eastern Europe.


#5

The same exists in 5.45x39.


#6

EOD, how rare is the 5.45x39mm type “US”? I’ve never seen one, only in a rare pic or two. Any images of one with the projectile pulled or a sectioned example?

Some of the first 7.62x39mm “US” rounds I ever saw came out of El Salvador, captured from the communist rebels there. They were all CWS cases with early to mid 1970’s dates as I recall. This was before the fall of the Iron Curtain…

AKMS


#7

AKMS, the 5.45 “US” is even in Russia very rare. The index is “7U1”. To my knowledge only very few were ever made (1 or 2 lots). Note that the 5.45 “US” has a tungsten carbide core (it is NOT the tungsten cored AP projectile which is the 7N24)

Here it is, hs is: “270 88” (there is also a “270 87”)


#8

Could the fact that the 5.45 x 39 cartridge was made at Lugansk provide any clue to its rarity? Perhaps it was a Lugansk development. The dates mentioned for the headstamp are very close to that of the dissolution of the USSR, with Ukraine becoming independent. Maybe with Lugansk the major factory in Ukraine, no longer especially aligned with Russia, the project simply folded up. I just wondered if any knew???


#9

John, I do not have the answer unfortunately but here what might play a role.
If Lugansk made the cartridges it might be very well that TsNIITOChMASh in Klimovsk developed it as it did with most special cartridges. So the design and knowledge would have remained in Russia after the USSR collapsed.
But that would not even matter regarding the fact that right the time the known 5.45 “US” were made (1988/1987) the at that time new caliber 9x39 got adopted.Sowith a much better suited cartridge became available which had a heavier projectile and longer range. So it might be very well the case that the 5.45 “US” just lost it’s role and production never resumed (also not in Ukraine).


#10

Thank you EOD. Is it the picture or does the projectile have a reduced diameter slightly above the case mouth? It looks slightly “wasp-waisted” if you get my meaning.

Bill Woodin once told me that the “7U1” projectile ogive was different than the ball and tracer; somewhat “fatter” than ball, but not as “fat” as the tracer.

AKMS


#11

Alex - Thank you for your reply. I had not given thought to the 9mm Russian rifle silencer round, even though I had a specimen some years ago.
I think your answer makes much more sense than my supposition. I am sure you are probably correct. I don’t collect these rounds, but I am interested in all ammo, and especially Soviet. Were I starting over 45 years ago in my collecting, I think I would collect only Russian and Soviet calibers, but from where ever they were made.


#12

[quote=“AKMS”]Thank you EOD. Is it the picture or does the projectile have a reduced diameter slightly above the case mouth? It looks slightly “wasp-waisted” if you get my meaning.

Bill Woodin once told me that the “7U1” projectile ogive was different than the ball and tracer; somewhat “fatter” than ball, but not as “fat” as the tracer.

AKMS[/quote]

AKMS, yes I understand you very well, it is a “bi caliber” so to say (2 different diameters).
Yes the “7U1” has a fatter ogive than the regular “7N6” ball. About the tracer I can ot say for sure since I have noone to grab and compare.


#13

That is exactly what I have decided to do.


#14


#15

#16

I was told the pre-serial production of 5.45 US cartridges used the 7N6 projectile. Mine have black (real black) tips and these hs:
17 79
270 76

There is also a drawing in a Russian publication showing a separate “US” projectile which does not have the “bi-caliber” design. Unfortunately there is no info on the status of it.


#17