Techcrim / Russian 8x57 IS

Sorry my bad. I was talking about the FedArms steel core 8mm Mauser with Techcrim on the bottom of the white box.
https://fedarm.com/product/fedarm-7-92x57-js-197-gr-fmjsc-steel-core-8mm-mauser/

I’ll see about pulling a bullet and getting photos of it.
Opened one box of 20 to look at the headstamps. They all have “dou” markings, all with “41” which I am assuming is 1941. The other 2 markings vary… IXg1, VIIIg1, or St. The other marking is a number 10,11,12,18, or 19.
The primers look original, crimped in… so makes me wonder if they are will go bang. It will be a while until I can test it.

What is the primer anulus color, or better yet, how about a picture.
dou is the code for the manufacture of the casing, Waffenwerk Brunn A-G, Povaszka Bystrica, Czechoslovakia.
“41” is 1941.
The other markings like IXg1, VIIIg1, to keep it simple, is the combination of the steel mill supplying the basic case metal, a lower case letter for the plating agency, and an Arabic numeral for the steel analysis. Some will jut have the “St” or “St+” which just simplifies the prior, saying it is a steel case.

The other number in the fourth position of the headstamp, is the lot number.

One note; Nothing on the headstamp indicates when or by whom the case was loaded. That information is on the original packaging.

Thanks xjda68 for that information.

Here is a photo of the primer.

Still have to find my RCBS bullet puller to get the other images…

It is all s.S. Ball. 198 Grain Cupro Nickel Clad Steel (CNCS) bullets.
Should fire just fine, please let us know.

Yes, the primers are original corrosive mixture (primer 88). They have NOT been replaced.

One added note, as I know someone is going to ask, how do you know it is s.S. not S.m.E… Because the 7.9 German community has not seen, to my knowledge, dou casings loaded with S.m.E. until lot number 26 of 1941, and remarkably they use a green primer sealant on them instead of dark blue/purple to confuse further, and also both CNCS bullet jackets, and GMCS jackets. You have to weigh them after lot 26 to be sure what they are.

xjda68’s analysis is correct, except that he swapped German GMCS (German, copper colored) and CNCS (Czechoslovak, silvery looking). The latter bullets are from Czechoslovak stocks and also OK.
But I still recommend to pull several bullets and make sure they are the correct type and weight. At the same time you will see if the cases hold a flake powder as used by German military and -most important- its condition (no red dust or acidic smell or flakes baked together).
We do not know the storage conditions of this ammunition during the last 8 decades.

Confused on what you mean by “Swapped”?

Cupro Nickel Clad Steel (CNCS).
Gilding Metal Clad Steel (GMCS).
What is wrong or “Swapped”?

This particular case code was loaded thru the early 1940’s with both GMCS and CNCS bullets of both s.S. and S.m.E. design. In 1943 s.S. 198 grain was finally starting to not be loaded in this case code very often.

As we both know, German s.S. bullets have GMCS jackets. If you meant that all the cartridges shown have Czechoslovak bullets, then please accept my apologies for misunderstanding you.

That is what I meant. All the headstamps pictured in the drum will have CNCS bullets.

Sorry if I confused.

Joe

These are interesting war time production cartridges in that the way they were labeled. Early on they clearly identified the bullets as CZECH “M.34” non German military standard, and later labels do not remark on such.

Scan_20200730

I have to say your guys knowledge about this stuff is impressive.

Well I pulled one bullet and took lots of information…
Fedarms / Tech rim Bimetal Jacket
Fedarms says they make from excess military stock… To me they look original.



Bullet is boat tail, rusted at the base, the internal case shows rust as well. Primer looks original, powder is flakes.

Powder weight: 42.1gr
Bullet weight: 197.005gr
Case with primer: 168.7gr



I happen to have a cheap bores cope to photograph the internals of the case… Rust on the walls…

So what do you guys think? I’m wondering if the rust tells me that there could be issues with this ammo such as FTF.

Your photos and data are excellent. The propellant looks ok.
In my view the main issue with the rust particles is their relative hardness. Part of them will be blown down the bore of your gun, having a small but existing sand paper effect on the barrel wall, recoil booster etc. Some will be left in the bore and act like sand between the bullet of the following shot and the barrel wall.
If your barrel(s) are already worn, the effect might be acceptable. I personally would not use this ammunition in a still good barrel.
Because of the corrosive primers, a thorough cleaning is required anyway, which will remove any rust particles after shooting.
Only a test can show how reliable the primers still are.

It is original ammo that they have done nothing with except inscribe each round and repackage it.

Ditto on what JPeelen says.

Most people perceive rust as soft, but it is not. It is an oxide. Like JPeelen says, sand paper. Some sandpaper for metal is made from Aluminum oxide, and there is others. Iron Oxide ( Fe 2 O 3 ) powder is used to polish soft ores, glass, lapidary, and soft metals. Also an ingredient in thermite.

I would not shoot this ammo in a minty bore.

And yes, excellent pictures.

Great info. Thanks for the info. Later when I shoot it, I’ll update my post for reliability.

Thanks for the warning on the barrel. I’m not too worry about the barrel… The original owner of the MG34 let it pit… So it is a ugly barrel, but usable. After enough shots… the sandpapering may make it smooth again! LOL.

I do have another MG34 barrel much better condition but accuracy for a MG34 is not a priority ;)

YES, that is the barrel to use for this ammo.

Okay… Opened another shipping box and found some more dou headstamp… But some rounds were way dirtier than the first case opened, 1940 datestamp.

Then another box opened and found all of them were brass jacketed bullets! So I pulled it apart and took measurements.

Headstamps:

  • P25 (Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbritzen G.m.b.H, Werk Sebaldushof, Sebaldushof, Germany)
  • 40 (1940)
  • VIIa1 (Steel supplier)
  • 120 (lot)

    Weight (overall): 410.3 gr
    Powder weight: 39.4 gr
    Bullet weight: 198.4 gr
    Case weight (w/primer): 169.5 gr

It too had rust inside but not nearly as bad as the other bullet.






I really hope I’m not overloading you guys with my photos!

There is no such thing as too many photos…

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The P25 has the German style of the sS bullet with a gilding-metal clad steel jacket, as introduced in 1918 for long range machine gun use and adopted in 1930 for general use (rifle and MG).

Picture please of what is “way dirtier”?
If you find any with little pin holes in the case with rust coming out, those are ones to examine.

@xjda68
Sorry… I cleaned the worst one before I really thought of taking a photo… It had oil type grease in the rim area and at the crimp it had it build up there. Removing it from the rim show no signs or issues, but removing it from the crimp area, the bullet was seated higher than the normal crimp area, hence you can see the craves. The rest in the pack had a light coating of dry mud such as the headstamp.

I opened about 7 of the 240rd cardboard cases (swapping them to ammo cans for better protection) and determined only 1 of the 240rd cases had the copper tip bullets. The rest were mostly dou, 1940-1941.