Test Question-9mm Bullets - How good are you?-7.62mm also!


#1

Below are sections samples of three 9mmPb bullets. Scoring is as follows:

Beginner: Correctly identifies only bullet on the left.

Advanced: Correctly identifies both the left and the center bullets (extra credit for identifying the specific variation of the center bullet)

Expert: Correctly identifies all three bullets

Any other results are a strong indication that you have been drinking!!!

Lets see who the first Expert is!!!

Cheers,

Lew


#2

Left: Czechzoslovak
Centre: Snail AP
Right: no idea


#3

What Alex said, but being a DM91 on the far right. Is that some sort of pow’r’ball type of tip on the Snail at center?


#4

Left: German mit Eisenkern
Middle: Libra Snail AP
Right: Do not know


#5

Well, it seems Matt has won a date with Lew (candles not included). I agree on the identification of the Czechzoslovak bullet at left and MEN DM91 Hartkern at right, and can only add that the Libra Snail variation is the 6,5 g.


#6

I didn’t realize that there was some sort of ball on the tip of some Snails. The few loaded specimens I have seen had flat tips if I remember correctly. Must be for improved feeding?


#7

No experts yet!!! Bullet profile on right does not match that of the DM91!

Tau is correct, the bullet on the left is a common mE. I don’t know if it is Czech or German made, or Polish or Austrian!!!

Fede, not surprisingly scored the extra points on the middle bullet. it is a 6.9g Snail. The most commonly encountered Snail is the 2.9g which has an aluminum bullet instead of the brass bullet pictured. See the pictures below. If I understand correctly, the 6.9g load is subsonic!

DK, the Snails come with a lead closed tip and a plastic closed tip. I have seen, or seen photos of both the black 2.9g aluminum bullet and the brass 6.5g bullet with both tip closures. I have only seen the other color aluminum bullets with the plastic tip closure. There also appears to be some difference in the shape of the front flange, but it is hard to tell. The round in the original photo has the tip closure missing. Perhaps an incomplete bullet.

The bullet on the right is tough!

Cheers,
Lew
PS: I don’t have either the yellow or green bullet version. There are also red and violet bullet versions which I don’t have. If one of you has dupes in these 4 colors, I’m interested!


#8

Lew, are you showing us a sectioned MDP Type 4?


#9

Lew is the right one a Czech AP experiment?
There exists also a black anodized Snail AP (2.8 gram) with a lead tip filler (at least the material looks like) - the second from the left in your image.

The core of a DM91 is smaller in diameter and the aluminum sleeve is protruding at the base of the jacket.


#10

Fede, the MDP T4 is a monolithic bullet, but that is a VERY clever guess! You have a good memory!

EOD, you are close, but it is not an experimental. It is a production item.

You are right both the black and the subsonic (brass) come with the lead tip. I think these were the original configuration and the plastic tip came later.

Cheers,

Lew


#11

Lew, I didn’t know it was monolithic and that would be the reason why I’ve never seen a sectioned MDP bullet before; too boring to look inside.


#12

Fede, That and the fact that I only know of a couple in existence.
Lew


#13

That’s for sure a far better reason!!!


#14

Is that one on the right the weird black-tip tungsten core one from VTUVM VOP-026 Sternberk? I had only ever seen a low res photo from their website of the outside of a few cartridges, but the link is now gone and they don’t seem to advertise it anymore.


#15

Matt, it seems you did win the prize this time. This is the VOP-026 AP bullet:

Can I light the candles?


#16

Well Done DK!!!

Can you post the info you have on this round? I’d like to see it. Even a poor photo would be appreciated. The three bullets pictured are in a clear plastic paperweight. All I can see the the cut-away surface. Any photo or info would be appreciated!

When I look at the Snail closely, what you thought looked like a plastic ball is an airbubble. It looks like there is lead residue inside the tip behind the front of the core.

As I suspected, this is an awsome team on the IAA Forum! Amazing how much knowledge comes to a question. I posted this at 1515 hrs and 7 hours later you guys had the answer. I thought this would run for a few days at least.

EOD suspected, correctly it was Czech. DK figured out what it was. And of course Fede comes up with the drawing and you both had the designation which I did not have.

This is all I had, a photo!

Thanks to all of you.

Cheers,
Lew


#17

Niiice. I was wondering about the pinched looking tip of the bullet, but I thought… no, that’s far too obscure for Lew to have a sectioned projectile. I didn’t think any of those got out… and a DM91 variant seemed more plausible. Leave it to Lew to find a sectioned one of those VTUVM bullets. I’ll have to wait until work tomorrow to post the photo I have from my computer there which shows what looks like a pinched-in bullet tip just below the black paint. Leon Geisler noticed the link from the VOP website in Jan, 2011 but the link no longer works and they don’t seem to mention it now: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10052

Do you have a patent number to go with that patent drawing Fede?


#18

Here is the Slovakian patent (it was also patented in Czech Republic):

sendspace.com/file/3fonq1

Lew, thanks for starting this test, it was fun and clearly shows the forum is great. You are the expert!!!


#19

Here is the entry I had in my book, which is a small one due to limited info. I pasted the data table as it had been previously shown on the VTUVM website. Note the little “pinch” in the projectile tip just below the black paint:

As for the cartridge’s designation, I’m not sure. We call it a VOP-26 or VTUVM load, but that’s just the name of the manufacturer and the parent company. I would guess that the glass/resin paperweight that you have is a VTUVM promo product intended to show the progression of Czech / Slovak armor-piercing projectiles in 9mm, with the VTUVM load being the most modern and presumably most capable projectile.


#20

For anyone trying to download the patent file; don’t click on the “download” buttons around the top or sides of the page, but click on the light-blue box near the center bottom to get Fede’s posted patent file. It confused me at first.