Thai 5.56x45 with hs "RTA" by Igman?

I have found this image in the web and also saw a box by Hansen which contained these headstamps.

Given the appearance of the hs (PA and primer) and the long lasting relation of Hansen with Igman all looks much like this hs was made by Igman. Initially sure for the Royal Thai Arsenal but it seems some overrun may have ended up in Hansen boxes.

Anybody to add info, clarify or confirm?

Here the hs:
56x45_Royal Thai Arsenal_made by IK

Alex,

Ron Fuchs in his reference work on 5.56/.223 attributes this loading to the ROYAL THAI ARSENAL;
Ayutthaya, Thailand. No other information is given.

Brian

Brian, yes, the RTA as such is it but as you see the finish is very typical. Hence my question.

Alex,

I finally had time to do a search and you are correct:

Brian

Brian, thanks again. You are a master of the search!

Trying to be objective I must say that in that other thread the same thought was put forward but I was looking for a more solid confirmation like somebody having a Hansen box he bought with the RTA hs inside or so.

Anybody here who owns such a cartridge (and box maybe) and can compare 1:1 next to an IK made one?

Here are some Alex.

1 Like

Pete, thanks a lot! What a great selection!

Anybody out there to confirm he got a Hansen box with this hs inside?
Any maybe to post the box where it is featuring any possible manufacturer (presumably Igman then)?

Hi Alex,

I can confirm this is a 5.56mm M193 contract for the Royal Thai Army (RTA) manufactured in 1987 by Igman in Yugoslavia, who submitted the cheapest bid and winned a tender against Norinco. It was packed in 840 round metal boxes with bandoleers containing 10 round clips with a magazine loader for the Heckler & Koch HK33 Rifle (picture below).

P-87

As you mention above, it is also found in Hansen Cartridge Co. boxes marked “.223 Remington (5.56 - M193) 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket”. This is the purple side panel box variant with product code HCC223A, that is also marked “Made in Yugoslavia”. My earliest ad showing this product dates from June 1988.

By the way, I must point that “RTA” stand for “Royal Thai Army”, and not “Royal Thai Arsenal”, which to my knowledge never existed under that name. It is also the manufacturer’s symbol of the Royal Thai Army Ammunition Plant located in Bangkok, not Ayutthaya, which is 80 km to the north. You can find these initials in different items made for said army by different manufacturers from abroad, so doesn’t necessarily indicates local manufacture. Same applies to the “Royal Thai Navy”, whose contracts are marked “RTN”.

Regards,

Fede

Fede, thanks a lot! I kinda knew it would be you answering…

The “Royal Thai Arsenal” I had taken from web descriptions. Thanks for putting this straight (again).
In particular with the “RTN” it makes sense.

Do you happen to know if the Thais have a website (any) for their ammo manufacturers?
I was not able to find propper data sources.

EOD - Enter “Thai Arms” and you will get some information. I
did not care to sign up to enter their main website, but their is a lot
of company data found quickly. Enter “Bullet Master Thailand” and
the first entry I got was their website, which is quite eclectic in my
view, and the pictures on it as it appeared on my screen were out
of perspective, appearing “squashed” (boxes too narrow, cartridges
to short, etc.). But, still some information.

John M.

I was in contact with Royal Ammunition last year and they had an active website. It is now not operational and even their facebook page is not updated, so I am assuming they are now out of business or have been taken over by the military again.

Here is a link of a summary of Thai ammunition:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/thailand/industry.htm

Not that this is anything of fact, but I found a thread on a Thai gunboard discussing their local ammunition. Nothing substantial other than their opinions on Thai ammunition. It is almost amusing (somethings lost in translations) and I thought some of you may get a kick out of it. (2007 threads)

Any Royal Ammunition ammunition used? What type of ammunition do you use? As of today, the quality of accuracy compared with the Bullet Master Thai Arms is offline.

(Royal)This factory is located on Nakhon Sawan - Tha Tako Road. I passed the car passed on Saturday, see the factory labels (signs) are not offline (gone).

If this is a Royal ammunition, I think this one is more awesome than the Bullet Master and Thai Arms for me …

Use it. Titanium size. 45 head cut personally like Bullet Master and Thai Arms strength. And more accurate than ever using Thai Arms so much soot and not enough strength to shoot Para Ordnance P12 of the ball to my friends all the Bullet Division is a little better, but Royal is not a problem.

Yes … now the factory sign says Bullet factory (Just changed 2-3 months ago. I do not know why) The factory is under the control of the military .

If there is no no more Bullet Master or Thaiarm, I choose Royal …

9mm Yes, I try it 2 boxes really not true, but the practice *** My wife’s rehearsal says that the smoke is still burning coconut glaze **

Thank you, I saw her shot two mags, and then I was so mad at the third Mag.

Post edited only to add link to summary of Thai ammunition

Thank you gentlemen!

royal thai army

Very neat box!!!

EOD
I think their was confusion on the RTA marking meaning either the Royal Thai Army or the Royal Thai Arsenal due to the terminology used. In Thailand if you look at many published articles such as the explosion the plant had in 2012 and other articles, the plant is actually referred to locally as: The Royal Thai Army Arsenal.

Then the Divisions of the actual military (also as Fede stated) are broken down to Royal Thai: A,N,F or A meaning RTA (army), RTN (Navy), RTA (Airforce) and RTM (Marines). With all the RTA acronyms possible with the names, this can be confusing.
The city was disputed just as Brian stated, as there were reports/publications referring to this factory being located in Ayutthaya, But it is in fact located in Bangkok, as Fede and others have said. I too had it listed incorrectly as being in Ayutthaya but knew it was in Bangkok.

Curtis, the 2012 explosion ocurred in a Royal Thai Army arsenal named Pak Chong Arsenal in the Nakhon Ratchasima province, but it was not a facility called “the Royal Thai Army Arsenal”.

The “RTA” acronym always mean Royal Thai Army, either applied to the army itself or the ammunition plant. To avoid confusion, the artillery ammunition plant is simply designated “AAP”.

Regards,

Fede

Thanks Fede
Ok I get it, and will ammend my notes. But Again even more confusing with names with everything pretty much being RTA in that country…lol. I can understand how people can get confused as even with the Thai translations a lot is lost when translated or depends upon who translates it I think. The Thai articles I first read had it as “THE” Royal Thai Army Arsenal. Now reviewing others they have it as it occurred at “A” Thai Army Arsenal. Makes sense to be at “A” rather than a “The”. I need to learn Thai to get it right…lol

Guys, thanks again!

Curtis, thanks for the .45 box image!

Alex, here is a picture of the original Thai contract metal box by Igman. Although it is not identified with their initials, the marking shows their typical “A” letter.

P-87a

Regards,

Fede

Fede, again thanks! These images are invaluable reference!