The G2R R.I.P. 9mm bullet


#1

In what seems sure to be the next Black Talon in terms of media hype and being labelled as a “cop killer” from anti gun lawmakers comes the gnarly looking 96gr 9x19mm R.I.P. (Radically Invasive Projectile) from G2 Research (G2R). G2R refers to the patent pending technology as TROCAR, and I have no idea what that stands for. This was either shown at SHOT show 2014, or timed for media release during SHOT show for maximum effect, and it has been all over the gun forums and blogs in the past few days.

The bullet is nothing too terribly special, it’s just a solid copper hollow point at +P level with vertical striations done in a gothic style and meant to fragment apart after post-impact penetration. It’s basically like Lehigh Defense’s “Maximum Expansion” bullets, but with fragmenting arrow-shaped segments meant to offer an effect similar to the Magsafe Defender. The manufacturer has a website at http://www.g2rammo.com and a very informative Youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c

Billed as “The last round you’ll ever need”, the style of the bullet, along with the fantastical images shown in the promo video of the bullets penetrating and exploding everything they touch will no doubt result in somebody somewhere testing it on Kevlar and declaring the results in a forum somewhere. I have no idea on availability or price as their website is down, but I suspect a direct from manufacturer storefront similar to Lehigh Defense.

Here is a screenshot of the moment of exit from one of their projectiles going through a water-filled balloon. If a water filled balloon causes the segments to detach and disperse as quickly as is shown, then it apparently requires very little resistance or depth to do so, yet they also show it penetrating a cinder block, which is impressive for a 9mm hollow point capable of such expansion in soft media:

The video claims that they plan on future calibers of .380acp, .357sig, .40S&W, .45acp, and shotgun slugs. No word on a headstamp, but I assume commercial brass, with an eventual custom headstamp if they become as successful as Liberty Ammunition. I must give the manufacturer kudos for creating what appears to be a combination of styles & functions borrowing from the Lehigh “Maximum Expansion”, the Kawser Pingrabber, and the Cobra Gun company High-Safety ammo.


#2

DK, I saw a box on GunBroker a couple of days ago and bid on it for about 20% more than the manufacturer told me was the commercial price ($50-$60). It is now at $106 for a 20 round box. I’m told that a number of dealers will offer it commercially, and I will place my order then.

Thanks for posting this.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

TROCAR is a medical device, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trocar

Charles


#4

I’ll be grabbing a box as soon as I’m able, same as any other new weird stuff that shows up.

I’ll shoot a vest panel with it too, but I really doubt any expanding, pre-fragged pill like this perform well on soft body armor, unless they are using a hardened alloy which would very likely place them in ATF’s AP guidelines. The copper bullets from Barnes and others don’t do much special on vests. Likewise, even solid copper flatpoints like Federal’s non-tox stuff are stopped by standard armor.

In my opinion, they should’ve spent the $$ from all their graphics and full-auto bullet-hosing on vetted FBI-protocol tests. Without those results I doubt they’ll do well in the LE market, and at those prices I wish them extra luck.

I saw an FMJ projectile a long while back with an intricate scoring pattern very similar to this; I’ll try to find the pic.


#5

Thanks for the heads-up on the auction Lew. That price is absurd given that they have what looks like commercial level packaging & production in progress. If the retail price is going to be in the $50 range, then anything over $75 for a box is really high, and it looks like it is at $140 + with 3 days left to go. I don’t think the politicians will get their teeth into it that quickly so as to make it disappear. The auction gives a good look at the boxes anyway:


#6

It’s not Sunday yet, but I’m gonna preach, just a little bit.

I’m as pro-gun as anyone could possibly be, more so than most, but stuff like this does none of us anything beneficial, whatsoever, notwithstanding, regardless.

End of sermon.

Ray


#7

Ray - finally some one who agrees with me. Remember my comments on “Zombie” ammo? I got chastised a little for them, albeit in a friendly manner. Sells ammo, but there are things more important in life than making a sale. Selling one item just to have it wipe up more hysteria that ends up in banning others is a loser by any standard.

I don’t care about the shape of the bullet, which probably won’t do anything a FMJ bullet or standard HP bullet will do, even though it looks nasty. The packaging, with the big “R.I.P.” on it is especially offensive. A smart anti-gun prosecutor, in a self-defense case, could probably use the packaging as “evidence” that the defendent wasn’t just interested in defending himself, but actually set out to kill his opponent. Soft-hearted (and usually soft-headed as well) juries don’t understand that real self-defense is not a video game! It must be the “One Ranger Syndrome” where he always shoots the gun out of the opponent’s hand.

At any rate, in my opinion, it is very poorly thought out advertising - I don’t care if it sells to the “boy commando” segment of the shooting population or not.


#8

It does seem to fall into the same boat as the zombie ammo and the pork-paint tipped Jihawg ammo in terms of shameless promotion, but then, those other 2 are very successful sellers if money is their goal. But while the zombie stuff had an element of tongue in cheek humor, and the Jihawg ammo is just obscure FMJ remanufactured stuff - these R.I.P. loads seem more intent on marketing themselves as radical killers of anything walking, and of being horribly wound-causing.

The real litmus test for me in terms of whether a projectile is self-defense worthy (and worthy of purchase beyond collecting) is whether or not any federal agency or law enforcement anywhere would carry them. If the answer is no, then there is probably a good reason, and it is often that the same level of incapacitation from more traditional expanding hollow points can be had for far lower cost per round. This is why my ammo cans of bulk shooting ammo for self defense are full of Winchester Ranger SXT and Federal HST.

Meanwhile, the auction is up to $213 for a box of $20 ! (with still 3 days to go!), which leads me to believe that people are erroneously assuming that these are AP, based on what they see in the video. Penetrating a cinder block does not an AP round make, and exploding a watermelon is easier than it seems.


#9

I suppose one good thing is that it makes another interesting looking round for collectors.


#10

Ray & John, I do not disagree with you, but our opinions are irrelevant. The truth is this stuff is only produced to make money. The Gunbroker auction on this box went over $200 last night. I suspect they will soak this auction market for a while before they offer these boxes at $60 or more each. Big companies or small—they will make and sell whatever people will buy—and particularly what they can sell at a premium!

We can complain, but that is capitalism and it is a LOT better than the alternatives. Our choice is whether we contribute by buying this stuff. In the past I have bought stuff like this, and will get a box of this when the price drops to my threshold.

Already have guys in Europe writing me and asking if I can bring some over this spring!

Cheers,
Lew


#11

Yes, it is our choice to buy or not, and like most collectors, I confess to hypocrisy in that I will attempt to obtain a specimen of whatever they make for my collection. I envy those casual collectors, like my best shooter friend and colleague now long gone, who collected only what he liked and left the trash to more advanced collectors who feel, as do I, that I have to represent everything in my collection.

I have said before though, that our opinions in this matter are not irrelevent, as this kind of advertaing (R.I.P. etc.) has brought us a lot of grief as gun and ammunition owners, with new laws based not on the actual effects of ammunition (and guns), but with what they look like and how they are advertised. Perhaps I am more sensitive to this because at one time, I was proud of the industry in which I served for most of my adult life, and also I live in California, where the knee-jerk reaction to things like R.I.P. ammunition often results in a few more laws on the books restricting our Second Amendment rights. There is truth in the words that “an industry should police itself” or it will find unfriedly others doing it for them, usually in an extremist fashion.

That said, I will shut up on this matter. I know that my views are not popular. I have, in fact, deleted about half of this answer even before posting it. More and more, I suppose I am becoming one of the enablers.


#12

Lew

I agree with most of what you said, except for one thing. Our opinions, yours and mine, are relevant. John put it much more eloquently than I can, so, I’ll add my “ditto” to his comment.

Now, having said that, I’m concerned that our opinions are becoming irrelevant. I used to be a guy who wrote letters to the editor, attended meetings, and, in general, spoke out on issues of gun-control, and ammunition control. I no longer do that. I simply don’t want or need the aggravation. It’s interesting that my wife is still very outspoken on the matter. She even wears the tee shirts. Visualize a 75 year old woman with a “PRO 2 A” tee shirt. I tell her to let it go, but we all know how much advise our wives will take from us.

Today is Sunday, so my sermon is more important than it was yesterday.

Ray


#13

And so it begins…

washingtontimes.com/news/201 … anstopper/

Dave


#14

No problem with them in Italy: they would be illegal for self defense like all SP and HP bullets.
These RIP bullets could be used for target shooting ( and they would be too much expensive and useless for that purpose) or for hunting ( and you can’t hunt with pistols in Italy)


#15

[quote=“DaveE”]And so it begins…
washingtontimes.com/news/201 … anstopper/
Dave[/quote]
That article answers my Kevlar question with the quote:

But they specifically mention level III-A, which seems to beg the question, will it penetrate level-II? It shouldn’t matter since criminals with guns will almost always choose the cheapest FMJ ammo, or the cheapest / most commonly available hollow points, not crazy stuff like this.


#16

Got to admire their marketing. There are four recent auctions on GunBroker of these rounds. Each is a single 20 round box. One box sold for $300. The other three are currently have bids of $150-$180. The “Buy Now” price on these auctions is $300. No wonder there are people working hard to out hype each other with this kind of ammo.

I wonder how long it will be until these things drop to a “reasonable” price of “only” $50-$60 per box. Makes our “DoneDeal” guy look like a piker.

The world continues to surprise me!

Cheers,
Lew


#17

That ammunition is making the rounds on the internet. Yahoo News, Drudge Report, Blogs, various “News” sites. It could be good news or bad news, depending on your point of view. I don’t see anything good coming from all the publicity, but that’s just my own worthless opinion.


#18

My local sherriff just asked if I had any. He too sees the hype but would like to shoot some


#19

Pepper, Tell him I can get him three boxes at $500 per 20 round box!

Cheers,
Lew


#20

The flood gates seem to have opened in terms of auctions for this ammo as there are now around 50 of them listed. Many sellers are listing it as a pre-order purchase and say they expect their orders next week. Some sellers have good feedback, some have created accounts yesterday with no feedback - just to cash in on this frenzied market. There are enough listings though that it should equalize out to a somewhat more reasonable price going forward, like maybe $100. I would still wait for retailers to have it in stock at $50 - $60 though. The funny thing is that a couple auctions show bids of over $250 or even $300 (for a 20rd box!) which are soon to end, while other newer 24-hour listings are around $60. The early bidders are paying a heavy price.

I also noticed that in the most recent Firequest.com email blast that they show an image of the G2 RIP along with other ammo. i called to ask, and before I could finish my question about availability, the exasperated receptionist told me it was not in stock yet. She has been fielding calls all afternoon about it.