Three Unknown 9mm drills/sub-calibers


Here are three unknown items. I think all are fairly recent manufacture. From the Left:

—Aluminum subcaliber-This sure doesn’t appear to be in 9mmP unless it is for a special barrel
—Turned brass with rubber primer insert
—Turned brass with red painted grooves

Does anyone have any idea who made these???

Cheers, Lew



I can’t identify any of those for you. I have the center one myself, and have had it for several years, and nobody has been able to ID it for me. The one on the right is very interesting. I have a solid brass round, with a very flat tip, unlike the one in your picture, that has two, orange painted grooves as well. It is from New Zealand, but I don’t know the maker. However, the position of the grooves, their shape, and even the color of the orange paint in the grooves, are all features quite different than on yours. I wonder if yours was part of a series leading up to a new drill round for NZ. It sure seems coincidental with those orange-painted grooves. Well, I don’t know that, of course, simply might be an avenue for further research for you. I have not seen the one you have before, not have I ever seen that particular subcaliber adaptor round, if that’s what it is.


What are the dimensions of the aliminium subcal sleeve…firstly, it looks like it is turned from 10mm (or 3/8" (9,52mm) extruded Aluminium rod. so could be made on a “screw machine” or a Turret lathe, or even a simple "Hobby lathe.

The rebated bore of this subcal looks very much like a #209 or #245 Shotgun Primer battery cup ( about .300 rim and .243 cup diameter).

It might be for some sort of .22 ball or .25 ball subcal charge for Indoor practice…a Modern form of “Conus” design.
I myself have made (using recycled .177 air-rifle barrels, subcal devices in .30/06 and 7,9mm to make short, rifled “Faux cartouche” using a shotgun primer and a .177 pellet, loaded from the rear, and then fed from the magazine into a Short Rifle ( say a Kar98 original 1900 model, or a Columbian FN Gendarmerie carbine, also very short barrel.) For “Zimmer-shutzen” it is ideal; the Primer has enough energy to discharge the .177 pellet down about 2,5 inches of barrel to gain the rifling, and it travels quite accurately up to ten metres ( I use it at about seven to 10 paces, about 8 metres in a Workshop shed). Keeps your aim in.

I have a German 9mm K subcal device, fitted to take a RWS 4mm M20 CB type load; the “Faux cartouche” is turned steel. it cycles just like a real cases (by hand); it was fitted to a Walther PPK set.
The steel device looks identical to the aluminium one shown.

Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


Doc, The “case length” on the aluminum subcaliber is 0.80", The internal diameter at the base is 0.225" and at the “bullet” tip is 0.162". There is a abrupt change in diameter of the bore about 0.25" from the bullet tip.

This item came from Europe about 3 years ago and was supposed to be from Eastern Europe somewhere.

John, The two dummies may be from New Zealand. They both are similar enough that they could be part of a series that includes your’s. Can you post a scan of your NZ dummy for comparison?




Per Lew’s request, here is a photo of the New Zealand 9mm Drill round. The orange color in the grooves is very orange, not so reddish as the one in Lew’s photos appears, on my screen anyway. The tip of the bullet is very flat, which doesn’t show well in this scan. While I was at it, can anyone identify the two rouds to the right of the NZ round? The center one is black-anodized aluminum with a totally flat base like a rimfire, while the one on the far right is solid brass with a milky-white plastic “primer” (snapping surface).

I don’t even know what country they are from.

Collection of John Moss