308?


#1

Hello.
Who would have information on these two 308.
Cases are aluminum.
Thank you in advance.



#2

Firstly, they are NOT “.308”(sic)
They are Fabrique Nationale (Belgium) 7,62mm NATO cartridges, (NATO Standard “Cross in circle” symbol) made in 1960.

They look like either Plated Steel cases, or even Anodised Aluminium cases…some of the ECCA members will know better.

Doc AV


#3

hello
i think these 7.62x51 are not original but made from blank casing of FNB belgium
FNB did make 7.62x51 alu casing blank in various colors


#4

A magnet will tell you if they are steel. Weighing them will tell you if they are brass or aluminum.

A strong magnet and an accurate scale are tools that every cartridge collector should have.

BTW, the European designation is 7.62 X 51. In the U.S. it’s 7.62mm NATO, in Britian it’s 7.62 mm.


#5

Hello.
Sorry
They are two 7.62x51.
Both cases are aluminum and they are loaded.
To be few a reassembly?


#6

for the orange one i m sure because i had this loading in the past (blank)
you can see the remain of the green strong sealant on the neck


#7

Yes, i also think this are weekend specials from some artist(s)…

The alum-colored one is made from polished off orange Blank. You can still see remnants of the orange color in the number 60 and on F and N, and some spots of the base and in the extractor groove…
And to make Ball rounds from the blanks, they only had to cut off the elongated neck from the blank and mounting a new bullet…and voila, their is a new experimental ball round…
Mouth color is easy to make…

So, be carefull…
I just saw one on egun/Germany, which was sold for a “good” price…

Peter

[quote=“ammogun”]for the orange one i m sure because i had this loading in the past (blank)
you can see the remain of the green strong sealant on the neck[/quote]


#8

I actually think your rounds are legitimate, I remember that I got a set similar ones in the late 60ies, when I began collecting, from our ECRA (then ECCC) founder, my good friend the late Emile Timmermans, from Antwerp, Belgium…

Of course since then, some uncommon rounds of the kind began to show-up in Europe, coming from a well-known guy, who was working for a while in the R&D laboratory at the FN-Herstal and decided to start his small business of faking spurious "experimental "rounds from elements he just found (or rather more… appropriated) on the spot and assembled together…As far as I know, he was fired from his job later on…
Some of these “artistic” specimens found their way in well-known and quite serious collections, all around the world (just ask Bill Woodin…)… Our undelicate maker was convinced of forgeries and consequently fired from the club… But as he had always managed to mix his shit with some genuine cartridges, attraction was too strong to some avid collectors (!), and he discretely came again with his nice habits… He was fired a second time, but managed to always rove around fhere and there!

Several friends who attended (I could not go myself) reported his last appearance at the German meeting in Hess.OLdendorf, last September… where he managed, nobody knows how, to attend…!

He was found on the spot trying to sell scarce “experimentals” (sic!) for a good amount of cash to credule new collectors coming all the way from Spain!! Amidst his little marvels were supposed-to-be 7,92x57 Mauser “Duplex”, obviously home made… and, of course mixed as usual with legitimate stuff…! Convinced of forgery, he had to give back the money so he took back the rounds, but as far as I know, he was, for an unknown reason, allowed to stay around (which is, to my belief, rather curious!), in a corner with his table…
Another of his known tricks, in the 90ies concerned “experimentals” in 5,45x39 Russian, supposed to come from a “Czechoslovak research laboratory”(sic!), featuring a lot of diverse projectiles, never seen before! Of course, due to their nature, authentification was unpossible…

So, to sum up, be very careful about some of this “goodies”…with unproven or controlled origin. Anyway, the two 7,62 Nato pictured here are good, as far as I know…and beware of the Belgian Santa!!!

Phil.


#9

Hello Philipp,

maybe that yours are origin, but this silver colored aluminium one is not good. I have enlarged the pic by 20 times and than you can see the “round markings” of polishing off the old orange color, The headsatmp is on one side to much grinded off, and than you can see clearly the traces of the old orange color in the extractor groove, and in the impressed stamp of the headstamp…
If you can, enlarge the pic by yourself, and you can see this “old” colortraces in the deeper parts of the hs…
The sidewalls of the case looking like “turned”, and that comes from the material used, to get the old color away…
A drawn alu case is smooth and has , if any, only longitud draw marks, but no marks evenly around the case…

This type of ball ammo is really easy to make, if you have the old stuff at hand…and that person you mentioned, has this material.

by the way, this green color spots on the orange case are definitive the same color, as is applied on the crimping closure of the orange BLANKS…
So everybody can think, what is his believe…

I surely dont want to buy them…maybe for my fake-collection…

Sincerly
Peter

[quote=“stuka222”]I actually think your rounds are legitimate, I remember that I got a set similar ones in the late 60ies, when I began collecting, from our ECRA (then ECCC) founder, my good friend the late Emile Timmermans, from Antwerp, Belgium…

Of course since then, some uncommon rounds of the kind began to show-up in Europe, coming from a well-known guy, who was working for a while in the R&D laboratory at the FN-Herstal and decided to start his small business of faking spurious "experimental "rounds from elements he just found (or rather more… appropriated) on the spot and assembled together…As far as I know, he was fired from his job later on…
Some of these “artistic” specimens found their way in well-known and quite serious collections, all around the world (just ask Bill Woodin…)… Our undelicate maker was convinced of forgeries and consequently fired from the club… But as he had always managed to mix his shit with some genuine cartridges, attraction was too strong to some avid collectors (!), and he discretely came again with his nice habits… He was fired a second time, but managed to always rove around fhere and there!

Several friends who attended (I could not go myself) reported his last appearance at the German meeting in Hess.OLdendorf, last September… where he managed, nobody knows how, to attend…!

He was found on the spot trying to sell scarce “experimentals” (sic!) for a good amount of cash to credule new collectors coming all the way from Spain!! Amidst his little marvels were supposed-to-be 7,92x57 Mauser “Duplex”, obviously home made… and, of course mixed as usual with legitimate stuff…! Convinced of forgery, he had to give back the money so he took back the rounds, but as far as I know, he was, for an unknown reason, allowed to stay around (which is, to my belief, rather curious!), in a corner with his table…
Another of his known tricks, in the 90ies concerned “experimentals” in 5,45x39 Russian, supposed to come from a “Czechoslovak research laboratory”(sic!), featuring a lot of diverse projectiles, never seen before! Of course, due to their nature, authentification was unpossible…

So, to sum up, be very careful about some of this “goodies”…with unproven or controlled origin. Anyway, the two 7,62 Nato pictured here are good, as far as I know…and beware of the Belgian Santa!!!

Phil.[/quote]


#10

I had them for a moderate sum fortunately