Toyo 6.5 Swedish

#1

I just found this Japanese round in a bag from a show. I go through a considerable amount of mixed ammo and this is the first time I see a non-military Japanese round. How come? Is it ultra rare?
scan0090

6.5 Swedish Toyo
#2

I do not think it is that rare. Maybe I am wrong.

Joe

Golden State Arms "Santa Fe Supercleen" Brand 7.5mm Schmidt-Rubin Box
#3

Joe, would you have a box? I never saw one too.

#4

Vlad - there was a time when the TOYO headstamps were not
uncommon on various calibers of Brass. I could be remembering
this wrong, but I seem to recall that the brass was brought in by
Golden State Arms, of Southern California, some years ago and
loaded in this country. I have had several of them in several calibers
over the years.

I think today they have become somewhat scarce, like many of the
limited-time importations of 30 or so years ago. I forget now what the
calibers were, other than the 6.5 x 55, but I think I had a TOYO headstamp
in .303 in my collection.

#5

No box.

Joe

#6

Have several 30-06 rounds with TOYO.

#7

I have 7.5x55 Swiss with same headstamp, acquired by a friend from Golden State Arms in the 1960s. Necks & shoulders have split. Boxer primed.

#8

Was there maybe also a 7.62x39??? Just in case…

#9

EOD - I am pretty sure that there was no 7.62 x 39. The Toyo
cases were in calibers for surplus rifles, a big market in the
1960s, that were available in quantity and for which ammunition
was NOT available in quantity. That explains the 7.5 Swiss,
the 6.5 x 55, and even the .303, which was somewhat available
but not always enough to meet the demand as you could buy
a decent shooter Enfield of various Models and Marks for as little
as $9.95, so they were hugely popular with shooters as well as
collectors. I collected Enfields, in the late 1950s - early 1960s,
and the most I ever paid was for a Jungle Carbine, at 35.00, in
about new condition.

Not sure why they made .30-06, as I recall there seldom being
a problem getting decent, inexpensive .30-06 ammo, but perhaps
it was because it was a caliber already being made for the JDF.

At the time, there was virtually nothing in rifles in caliber 7.62 x 39 mm
on the market.

Edited to correct a spelling error only.

John Moss

#10

John, thanks for your insight!
So also no SKS were available back then?

#11

6.5 box full of new empty cases,not loaded rounds with the TOYO headstamp.
SF box front
Sf box back

#12

EOD - Almost no weapons from combloc countries, other than some
surplus Mosin-Nagants from Lord knows where, were available
at that time. american involvement in VN was pretty limited to MAAG
and SOG personnel until 1965, and the big buildup you could probably
say didn’t start until 1966. After about mid-1965 you started seeing
some SkS carbines, including the occasional non-Russian or non-Chicom
versions,but they were scarce and brought very high prices, more than a Garand.
A friend of mine had a DDR-made SkS that came out of S.E.
Asia. SkS carbines were seen often from about 1968 on, but in actuality,
the bulk of them came in later, both Russian and Chinese, with large
importations of them.

Aside from one or two errant over-the-counter purchased SkS carbines, as
I recall the first 7.62 x 39 rifle that we could simply order from the importer
or distributors was the Valmet 62s. I had one myself, and ammo was hard
enough to get when they came in that I used to make my own from 6.5 x 54
Norma MS brass, and loaded with a .303 150 grain bullet, the lightest bullet
of the approximately correct diameter available at the time. They shot great,
but since their was little or no loading data available, I settled for the lightest
load that would function the rifle, and for 100 yards, it was necessary to set
the sight for 300 years. They were reliable and accurate, however. Finnish
ammo was being sold, but for the times, it was dreadfully expensive.

John

#13

Here is a box Chris Punnett had in his collection at one time. It came out of Fuller’s stuff. There is no casings left, but Chris’s business card note indicates what was in there at one time along with his box list typed notes back it up. TOYO & J-TE is one and the same, Toyo Seiki Company. They made 39 million Ball & Tracer 30-06 for the US Army and 7 million Ball & 11 million Blanks for Japans Self Defense Force in the 1950’s according to Chris’s book.

Joe

#14

John, thank you again for the insight!