Turkish 7.65x53 Mauser headstamp


#1

At the ECRA meeting at Bisley Yesterday I bought a Turkish 7.65 Mauser round. I know it’s not a British military small arms calibre but I have a drawer examples of military rifle rounds from other places.

The headstamp is virtually the same as the one shown which is from municion.org, but the last character in the date looks like a small zero (Arabic number 5). This would be a date of 1325, which as far as I can tell is 1909 on the Gregorian calendar. The cartridge has a pointed CN FMJ bullet.

What do the symbols at 12 O’Clock and 3 O’Clock mean?

Thanks for any info.


#2

This has come up before. I seem to recall that it says “Little Mauser” at 12.


#3

12 o’clock: " Small Mauser" ( or “Little M”)
3 o’clock: ??? ( Maybe Quarter or Month–spelled out) or "spitzer"
6 o’clock: ATO ( Anno Turkish Ordnance) 1326 (CE 1909-1910).
9 o’clock: Star and Crescent: Ottoman Empire property mark.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#4

Some of the early headstamps do include the phrase “small Mauser,” but I believe this is simply “Mauser.” Not at all sure of the rest. Jack


#5

Jack – That agrees with Ken Elks. He says it reads RZWAM (MAWZR from right to left).

The symbol at 3 o’clock varies and 5 different are listed that include the letters “Y”, “M” and “A”. Ken says the same symbols can be found impressed into the base of the bullets. He speculates that they may indicate the manufacturing source.


#6

Somewhat related to this thread is another question. Ken Elks states that rifles in 7.65mm were discarded by Turkey in 1924 but I have rounds dated 1926, 1930 and 1931. If Turkey no longer had rifles in 7.65mm why would they still be making the ammunition? For Machine Gun use?


#7

Thanks for the info.


#8

Phil: I don’t have any insider knowledge here, but I’d be surprised if the conversion of the rifles from 7.65 m/m to 7.9 m/m was necessarily as prompt as the decree ordering it had intended. As far as MGs are concerned, I think that converting a Maxim from 7.65 to 7.9 is little more than a barrel switch. So finding the earlier caliber still in production a few years after the nominal cutoff probably is an indication of ordinary human miscalculation. Jack


#9

Just some other headstamps…