Twin City Ammunition Plant


A friend called me with a question that I can not find the answer for,so I have two (2) questions from him for the Forum:

  1. When did Twin City stop producing Ammunition ?
  2. Did they ever load 38 Super ? My friend has a 38 Super Head stamped
    TW 72 (Fired case) I think it may be a reformed .223 case?
    Thanks for any and all help.

Charles.j.Wells (Jack)
Sgm. USA. Ret.


Sgt. Major - don’t know when they stopped producing exactly, but am sure they never made .38 Super ammunition. There would have been no need for them too, even though some was procured by the Government over the years for the FBI and other agencies with a few of the pistols. Remington seems to have been the primary supplier for most of the contract stuff in this caliber.


Many thanks,that’s what I told my friend.I still think his TW 72 fired case was formed from a.223 Case. I’m not sure how as, I’m not into reloading,unless it’s down the muzzel (M1841 Miss, 1862 C.S.Rchmond, .451 Whitworth and a 12 Ga. that I shoot 69 Cal. Minnies in).
Again many thanks
All the Best
Jack .


For what it’s worth, the base diameter of a .380 ACP is .374" and a .223 is .376". The base diameter of the .38 Super (and .38 ACP) is .384" BUT being a semi rimmed cartridge, the RIM diameter is .405". Bruce.


I suspect that since the cartridge in questions seems to be some form of 9 x 23 mm round, and made from a .223 case, that it probably was intended for something where ammo wasn’t found too easily, like 9 x 23 mm Bergmann-Bayard, or 9 mm Steyr. The former is available thru 9 mm Largo surpolus and the latter thru Fiocchi, but neither are found everywhere, and some shooters are not aware that the 9 mm Largo is the same as 9 mm Bergmann-Bayard.

The .223 is too small in the base, but being a high-pressure rifle cartridge, the case base and head are very strong, and despite being undersized and therefore unsupported in 9 x 23 mm chambers, the cases will hold the pressure. There might be realy extraction problems in a .38 ACP or Super, when you combine the undersized 5.56 case and the fact that the .38 ACP/Super is semi-Rimmed. Successful .30 Mauser (7.63 x 25 mm Mauser) has been made in the past from 5.56 cases, so probably a 9 x 23 mm could be as well.

With great companies like Starline supplying brass for about everything these days, using substitute cases to make these rounds is pretty much an exercise in futility in my view, but people still do it to save a dime.


The word was it came in an old can full of fired 38 Super Brass,and that was all my friend knew.
Thanks to everyone for your imput.
As always


The last production run of 5.56x45mm from Twin Cities, was a limited quantity that bear the H/S: TW 75. This H/S: is found in everything from NUPE, NPE, Ball, Dummy Inert and an ammount of cases loaded by commerical loaders in Ball, Tracer, Blanks and Dummies.

A very small, final test run that bears the H/S: TW 76 was the last gasp out of Twin Cities. The few examples that bear the TW 76 H/S, are a fairly rare item and a great addition to any collection today.


Don’t forget that back in the 1970s, Jeff Cooper played with cut-down 5.56mm cases for use in a modified .38 Super Colt Commander. You’ll see it referenced as the Super 9 or 9mm Super Cooper.


Dan - yes, I had forgotten about that even though I have one in my collection from Cooper. I have a profound respect for Jeff Cooper, his theories and his accomplishments, but he was occasionally a man of contradictions. The 9 Super Cooper was no better than the .38 Super, if as good (despite the Semi-Rim of the Super, a feature John Browning was in love with, and one of the few things Browning ever did that I can find no reaql reason for) and yet Cooper pushed it but immediately, before there was even enough ammo for outside testing and it had no street record yet, dubbed the .40 S&W, a far better cartridge than the 9 Super Cooper, as the “.40 Short & Weak.” Interesting man. Make no mistake, I agree with about 85% of his teories on stopping power and pistolcraft. This just wasn’t one of them.



Like the .38 Super, Cooper saw his Super 9 cartridge more suitable for trail use, than for personal defense. Note that his modified Colt Commander had a rediculously long barrel.


Dan - If you have that magazine, could you scan that article for me. I have a little something in my files on the Super Cooper, but not that article. If you don’t have it, no worry. Maybe someone reading this will have it and accomodate this silly, paper-ridden old man. If not, it is not the end of the world. Pretty obscure cartridge.



It isn’t a problem. As a matter of fact, the linked photo was scanned from my copy.