Two 7x57 questions


#1

Spain sold Russia 7x57 Mausers during WW1.

Who supplied the cartridges ?

The Spanish previously sold Mausers to Mexico (this ceased when they started selling to Russia) Those rifles along with Japanese captured Russian 1891’s converted to 7x57 where used during the Revolution.

Did Mexico produce 7x57 or was it purchased, if so from whom ?

Edit for clarity


#2

Mexico did produce 7x57 ammunition; the range in my collection going from 1914 to 1938.


#3

jonnyc,

Would it be possible to see a head stamp or two ?

Are there any “Mexican” 7x57 cartridges you know of not produced in Mexico ?
I’m not interested in WRA since I know they sold the Mexicans a boat load of ammo.


#4

A few of the latest years I have.



Generalitat de Catalunya, Commision de Industrias de Guerra. Factory No 12 = Barcelona during the Civil War, the Republican side.

joe


#5

Do you have any documentation to show that your last headstamp there, which appears to read F G C I P No 12 is Mexican? Some years ago I compiled about 200 Mexican or Mexico-related metallic cartridge headstamps, and no one ever sent me this one. That doesn’t, of course, rule it out as Mexican, but a couple of the best collections world-wide were consulted for my list. Admittedly, Mexican cartridges other than auto pistol and 7.9 x 57 Mauser were never collected by me - I only collected information on them. I know little about the other calibers.


#6

John, No the Spanish revolution headstamp I threw that in there with entitle above picture, as I am confused as to what revolution Scott is referring to.

Joe


#7

Scott, the Fábrica Nacional de Cartuchos was established on July 1, 1907 (not in 1906, as previously stated) and by April 10, 1908 it was declared inaugurated and about to start full production. However, this factory experienced problems to achieve this and a letter dated 1910 mentions that Porfirio Díaz, Mexico’s president between December 1, 1884 and May 25, 1911 (3rd term), visited the factory and to avoid an scandal with him a firing demostration was done using cartridges specially handmade for the occasion.

To solve this problem during 1910-11 two contracts were filled with foreign houses: Mario Cresta representing Manfred Weiss and Parent & Leroy representing DWM and FN. The Hungarian cartridges were headstamped 19 W 11 (9, 12 and 6 o’clock), mounted in nickeled steel chargers marked W and packed in 15 rd boxes with Spanish language label.

Going back to Mexican production, there are very few production reports during the revolution period (November 20, 1910 - June 1, 1920) but one dated 1913 states that this factory was producing 270,000 7 mm Mauser cartridges per month. After this date, production is quite well documented.


#8

Joe, the last cartridge was made by a Catalan ammunition manufacturing facility designated “Fàbrica Nº 12”, “F-12” or “Fàbrica de cartutxeria de Girona”, which was located in the Palau-sacosta township, Gironès region, Girona province, Catalonia community, Spain. It was set up in the facilities of “Tapón-Corona ''Rapid” y Variedades, S.A.", a bottle tab manufacturer. Its construction was mentioned as starting by October 1937 and during 1938 it was producing cartridges in large scale.


#9

Fede,

I was going by what Serge Jorion and Philippe Regenstreif published in there book. Please explain the significance of the headstamp letters in reference to the manufacturer you specify.

Joe


#10

Joe, I only added some extra information, the identification you posted is correct, except for its location. The initials “G C” stand for “Generalitat de Catalunya” (the autonomous Catalan Executive Council, the President and the Parliament) and “I G” for “Indústria de Guerra”, both in Catalan language.


#11

Well I suppose they were generalizing, as that whole region encompassing the area you specify is considered Barcelona on a modern map, the same as the city nearby. Would have been better if they pinpointed a town, but they probably did not know the information you have. Thanks for the info, I will pencil it in.

You know, I have shipped items to Spain twice before and have had a hard time getting the FedEx or USPS computers to accept the addresses I was given by the residence there.

Joe


#12

I think I am still confused as you are saying Gironès region. I cannot find that on a map. I do find Palau-sacosta but that is in Barcelona region outside of the city. I could never figure out the addresses in Spain. It just gives me a headache. I like the USA with what State do you live in and what town, simple!
Township, region, province, community, holy crap what a confusing mess.


#13

As per Russian researchers Russia got it’s 7x57 from Japan with hs “J”.


#14

xjda68, think of “Twin Cities”. May be self-explainig to an American. I doubt any Spaniard (or Catalan) could easily identify them as Minneapolis and St. Paul.


#15

Oh yea, If you live there as an adult, you surely have all the Township, region, province and community address jargon clear in your head, but I am way to simple minded to try to make sense of all that. The Twin Cities is an American nickname. If you refer to a location within, it is either Minneapolis or St. Paul.

Joe


#16

You seem to have the location all figured out, look on like Bing or Goggle maps and it will give you a GPS coordinate. That I can punch in and be able to see as where you are defining as the location.

Joe


#17

Fede, OK good to know. Was it still a Republican operation or Nationalist?

Joe


#18

Alex, is that what this is?

Joe




#19

[quote]Fede, OK good to know. Was it still a Republican operation or Nationalist?

Joe[/quote]
It was a Republican operation that was taken over by the Nationalist forces in the first months of 1939.

The Type 38 rifles and 7x57 cartridges headstamped J 1913 and J 1914 bought by Russia were originally contracted by Mexico but the order was not completed because of lack of payment.


#20

Fede,

Thank you for the answers, that was the exact information I needed both times.

Thanks again,

Joe