Two very old rottweil cases

Just wanted to show you these two.



All information on these is welcome.
Also look at the topwads.
Hartshrot and weichshrot.

Regards Rene

1 Like

Very nice Rene,

I love the OSC’s, don’t see many like that.

Mike.

Thank you Rene for showing these very nice Rottweil shotshells. Do you know, when Rottweil closed the Hamburg factory, and did Rottweil Hamburg produced any other shotshells, than your two ?

Very nice cartridges Rene! Thank you for posting these images!

Regards,
Dave

Hi Lars.
Sorry, I have no idea when they closed this location.
Also I have no idea if they produced other shotshells over there.

Any information on this is welcome.

I have for dates of manufactured shells in Hambourg : 1885 to 1890
before and after these years I have no proof
jp

Very neat with those impressed topwads or Over Shot Cards as some say, first I’ve seen in non-US.

They are also found on some US made rounds & are not common. Here they all seem to be about the powder being used. Austin, Hazards & Oriental with one of the (the 12 Win. yellow Repeater) Austin Powder shells listing the load (147) to cover the shot size and powder charge, while the other Austin notes a #10 shot.

Not in exact relation to the photo but found here in Winchester Repeater (12b) , W.R.A.Co. Rival (10 & 12b), and U.M.C.Co. Club (10 & 12b) hulls.

Would like to know more about them.

There was no “Hamburg” shotgun cartridge factory, as far as I know.
Alfred Nobel had founded his first dynamite factory at a location named “Krümmel” on the river Elbe just outside Hamburg (Geesthacht). And for his guncotton/powder export business, as well as serving the Kaiserliche Marine, Carl Duttenhofer of Rottweil erected a large factory at Düneberg, right by the Krümmel plant. He made his son the director. That is, in a nutshell, where the name “Rottweil-Hamburg” comes from.
KrĂĽmmel (krl) and DĂĽneberg (dbg) were active up to the end 1945. On the KrĂĽmmel site a nuclear power plant was erected later.

Note the “Centralbuerau” line, which locates the main offices of the company in Rottweil (Württemberg is the state, actually a kingdom at the time) within Germany.

Wir empfehlen unsere als vorzüglich anerkannten Sorten Jagd & Gewehrpulver in allen Körnungen, besonders Jagdpulver N°4. ebenso unsere mit maschineller Einrichtung geladen Jagdpatronen, sowohl Papppepatronen, als auch dünnwandige Metallpatronen (Perfecthülsen).
Bahnversandt fĂĽr alle Patronen gestattet.

jp

A google translation of JP’s above reply, which I can’t seem to make a connection to.
Please explain JP?
Hartshrot means chilled shot unless I’m mistaken. Weichshrot, I don’t know & google is no help…

“We recommend our best-known varieties of hunting & rifle powder in all grain sizes, especially hunting powder N ° 4. As well as our hunting cartridges loaded with mechanical equipment, both cardboard cartridges and thin-walled metal cartridges (perfect sleeves).
Mail for all cartridges.”

Yes, I am sure you are right Pete, long time since I used it but “hart” = hard & “weich” = soft.
The last sentence “Bahnversandt für alle Patronen gestattet” I read as “Railway shipped for all cartridges stated” (so sent by train) anybody with better German than mine please correct me if I am wrong.

This is the text found on advertisings proofing the Rottweil-Hamourg Pulverfabrik was not only making powder but also loading and selling shotshells.

The “Centralbureau” was in Rottweil (Wirtenberg) and the “Exportbureau” in Hamburg (Dovanhof)
JP

JP, where comes that Name “Dovanhof” from?
I couldt find anything with this Name…
Here a short article by the Duttenhöfer Society at the local Industrymuseum at Geesthacht

Rottweil is in WĂśRTTEMBERG, just for the correct writing :-)

http://www.industriemuseum-geesthacht.de/html/max_von_duttenhofer.html

and here a wiki-article about PF Rottweil, mentioning that this Company was a short time with the name of Hamburg-Rottweiler Pulverfabrik

if you click in the de.wikipedia sign in the upper left Corner, you will get the full page text…

[hello!

  1. where comes that Name “Dovanhof” from?
    from the advertising
  2. Rottweil is in WĂśRTTEMBERG, just for the correct writing :
    you’re right.

My scanner is no more working, I am obliged to writte what is writen on the ads.

JP

Jeanpierre, I looked off now for similar wordings, and voila,
There was a Hamburg Dovenhof (not Dovanhof) and it was build as a Bureau-and storage-Hause for several parties, means it was rented away to People as storage (Kontor) for companies direct at the waterfront.
It had 1886 more than 60 parties, which had rented storageroom there. Including the RH-Company.
So, R-Hamburger had no plant in this facility, it was just the storage for goods, from where the goods where shipped, either by ship or railway.
The powderplant (and maybe a loading facility for shot-ammo) was at that time only at Düneberg, and the main factory for shotgun AMMO was at ROTTWEIL, which in my opinion has also made during this time the name of Hamburg.Rottweiler applied to the whole Company this ammo with that Name…hence the mention of Rottweil as Centralbureau and Dovenhof, which was ONLY a storage, as EXPORTBUREAU.
You can see here, that Dovenhof was not owned, nor used by RH for loading, just as a storage for Export as mentioned in that advertisment.

as bevore mentioned, you get more info on Dovenhof if you click on the de.wikipedia.org text in the left upper corner

Hi peter,
thanks for your research

  1. you are right it is not Dovanhof but Dovenhof.(nor easy for my to copy an ad)

  2. I never said it was loaded in Dovenhof.and I agree with you.

I just copied what they said on an ad from “Pulverfabrik Rottweil Hamburg” dated 1885

And from my traduction it means not only they made powder but also loaded shotshells.
This was to give info to JPeelen.
Am I right ??

The two labels “Centralbureau” in Rottweil (Wurttenberg) and “Exportbureau” in Hamburg (Dovenhof) were at each side of the ad.

jp

I can add that the name “Pulverfabrik Rottweil-Hamburg” was used between 1877 and December 31, 1889. On January 1, 1890, it became “Vereinigte Köln-Rottweiler Pulverfabriken”, that was a merge of this company with “Vereinigte Rheinisch-Westfalische Pulver-Fabriken”.

The export office was located in Hamburg, first at GerhofstraĂźe 32, and since 1889 at the Dovenhof house office.

It had seven different factories:

  • Rottweil am Neckar (WĂĽrttemberg)
  • DĂĽneberg bei Hamburg
  • Adolzfurth bei Oehringen (WĂĽrttemberg)
  • Niedereschach (Baden)
  • Gotteszell (Bayern)
  • Kempten (Bayern)
  • Memmingen (Bayern)

Hi everybody.
Thank you all very much for the input.
It is, as usual, a great pleasure to receive so much information.
Many regards Rene

yes but the last 5 ones where only pure Powder-factories, bought from Duttenhofer to get a “bigger” Company. It is mentioend in the Museum at Geesthacht.
The question was only, if Dovenhof or Duneberg has fabricated Shotshells, which in the case of Duneberg I dont think so and Dovenhof was only an exportbureau… Shotshells where in my opinion only made at Rottweil, where there was loading facility and a powderfactory. The Duneberg factory made first only artillerypowder for the navy and than started also to produce “smaller” powder for rifles and shotshells. The Duneberg land (ground) was in the ownership of Fürst Bismarck and only rented to Duttenhöfer…

Peter, I also believe that the shotshells were made at Rottweil because I couldn’t find anything indicating its manufacture or loading at Düneberg.

Regards,

Fede