Ukrainian 9x18 boxes by Lugansk


#1

If anyone is interested.
The first box is done up to 2008. After 2008 producing the boxes 2 and 3.
Old army stamp 270 has been replaced in 2008 on Lugansk logo - ЛПЗ.
All cartridges with FMJ bullet with lead core. Used for commercial purposes and for the police.
Information on the new box:
Lugansk logo - Lugansk Cartridge Works.
“Патрони 9х18-7” - Cartridges 9x18-7 (bullet weight).
“Оболонка пулi бiметалева” - bimetallic jacket of bullets.
“Маса кулi - 7г” - mass of bullet 7 gr.


#2

inertammo,

interesting to hear! I have 2 questions
since when is ЛПЗ used?
has ЛПЗ replaced 270 for non-commercial contracts too?

спасибі!

Hans


#3

Inertammo–When did LCW start using ЛПЗ? Is this headstamp being used on 7.62x39 as well? If so, is it being used for military contract along with the year (ЛПЗ 11) or just commercial loads (ЛПЗ 7.62x39). Can you post images of the headstamps for 7.62x39 if they are being made?


#4

It does NOT say “Оболонка пулi бiметалева”.
It says “Оболонка Kулi бiметалева”.
“пулi” would be in Russian.
I have a general question. These Ukrainian boxes state the bullet weight in Metric system. Do other countries also use Metric denomination to indicate projectile weight? Is there a movement to unify world ammo jargon into one system given the world ammo market (i.e.ammo being made in one country and sold in many others)?


#5

Vlad - there has always been a movement to try to get the US to join the metric system, but it has
never gone anywhere serious. It took us years to join the standard road signs of the world. My first trip
Europe in 1972, I had no idea what a red circle with a slash mark thru it mean’t over other symbols on
traffic signs.

Most European boxes for domestic sales (I say most because sometimes if the USA is the biggest market,
they only make an “American Style” box (English language, etc.), have the measurements, including bullet weight if given, in metric. Some have it in both.

Will we ever join in here? Probably some day, but I think it is still a long way off. My grandkids don’t seem to have received any instruction in the metric system, but then I am talking about California schools! Used to be the
best in the nation, bar non. Now they are about the poorest.


#6

Very interesting. I guess I thought that Lugansk was no longer producing cartridges…

As for the Metric system in US schools today, I think the movement to use it is not as strong as it was when I was in school. My kids, still in high school, received only basic introduction in the Metric system in early grade school, but tell me that in their science classes, the Metric system is used almost exclusively. My wife teaches at the K-2 level and tells me that it is no longer a state requirement to teach the Metric system.

AKMS


#7

Not cartridge related, but the UK is an odd situation as far as the metric / imperial system is concerned. Most things are sold in metric, but some things (milk, beer etc.) are still sold in pints. Road signs are still in miles as well. Also, in my line of work (engineering), while alot today is made in metric, there is still alot of British made equipment in use that uses imperial measurements. I do alot of work on a Cincinnati vertical milling mahcine which has inch dials, but I am usually making metric parts. Screw threads are yet more confusing as there are European, British and American standards. Some of the machinery I repair parts for has threads from all three systems on the piping, which can make things somewhat confusing.


#8

I can only speak to the question of Lugansk"s production of 9 x 18 Makarov. After the Makarov Pistol (PM) was officially adopted in 1951, with production beginning in 1953, Lugansk was the first company to serially produce the 9 x 18 mm Cartridge. They began in 1953, producing brass-cased rounds in 1953, 1954,and 1955 and steel-cased rounds in 1955 and 1956. These all had letter-code dates from the Soviet System, with the Cyrillic versions of D, E, I, K. There are two forms of the letter “E” on headstamps, and Letter “I” is found on both brass and steel cases, for a total of six known variants in ordinary ball. There are a couple of dummy variants known as well. The factory designator on all of these rounds is “270.”

In 1956 production of the Makarov cartridge was transferred to Yuryusan, using the factory designator code “38.” The first Yuryusan cartridges also have the letter-coded date “K” representing 1956. From at least 1957 on, the dates were recorded on the headstamps in uncoded numerals. They produced the round, probably every year, until 1989.

After the breakup of the USSR and independence for Ukraine, Lugansk resumed production of the 9 x 18 mm Makarov cartridge, probably in the year 1994 - that is the earliest post-independence date I have seen on this caliber ammunition, at least. Every year-date is known, it seems, until 2008. I had thought, until this thread, that the “270” code was to continue on military cartridges while the new commercial production would have the Cyrillic version of “LCW” on it (Lugansk Cartridge Works). However, that question, asked previously on this thread, remains unanswered. Lugansk literature actually shows an “LCW” headstamp in the Western alphabet, although I have not heard of any cartridge so-mared yet. It would make sense, however, for export ammunition to be marked that way. It would be nice to know if any 270-coded 9 x 18s are actually known from the year 2008 or later, and the exact year that the “TCW” (Cyriilic) headstamp first appeared.


#9

[quote=“Hans”] I have 2 questions
since when is ЛПЗ used?
has ЛПЗ replaced 270 for non-commercial contracts too?
спасибі!
Hans[/quote]

Stamp 270 has been replaced by LPZ around 2008. The last stamp that I saw was 270 08. After that, only LPZ 9x18.
On 7.62 x39, I have the latest case with 270 06 stamp and with the new stamp of LPZ 7.62 x39, and can not show an accurate picture of changes stamps.
How do I know now the Ukrainian army does not use cartridges at LPZ, IMHO the army uses Soviet stocks, and the stamp of LPZ 11 does not exist. All Lugansk cartridges used for commercial purposes and bought by the police.

(sorry for my English :) )


#10

I have only this…


#11

Inertammo - for the purpose of communication, there is nothing at all wrong with your English. It is completely understandable. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.


#12

Thank you for your understanding. Later I will share my photos 9x18 stamps (Lugansk and Yuruzan’ ).


#13

Inertammo–Thanks for the headstamp picture. Don’t worry about your English. It is completely understandable. I can assure you, your English is is a lot better than 99% of the Forum users Russian.


#14

Ок! Сontinue… :)
On this cardboard box for 896 rounds of ammunition 9x18 we can see the first year hallmarks ЛПЗ. It’s 2008.
ППМ 9С - new ukrainian index of cartridge - PPM(Pistol Cartridge Makarov) [b]9/bC(lead core - Свинцовый).Old soviet index of cartridges with lead core was 57-N-181.


#15

…and headstamps.



#16

Inertammo, Some years ago, Lugansk sold a 9x19mm loading line to a Greek. Do you know if Lugansk eever produced 9x19mm themselves?

Cheers,
Lew


#17

As of Jan 2011, I received an email from Lugansk, stating they only manufacture 9x18, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 cartridges. The headstamp changed to the Cyrillic nn3 in the Fall of 2008 as they wanted to get rid of the “Soviet” style of markings. I can not state if they had other calibers made prior. This company actually filed for banrupty in I believe 2002 but restructured and continue on. They may have had a larger range of products prior to 2002.


#18

[quote=“Lew”]Inertammo, Some years ago, Lugansk sold a 9x19mm loading line to a Greek. Do you know if Lugansk eever produced 9x19mm themselves?

Cheers,
Lew[/quote]

I am not sure that Lugansk sold equipment to Greek.
4-5 years ago Lugansk produced pilot lots of 9x19 cartridges for testing cartridge making equipment made for Czeh customer.
As per info from Lugansk plant in 2010 they finished all paper work (licenses, technical and technological documentation, etc) and start to produce 9x19 for Ukrainian market (i.e. for Militia or Guard companies). I think now they producing a small lots of this caliber, because here in Ukraine we still didn’t see Lugansk 9x19 fired cases and boxes at shotting ranges


#19

Below is an excerpt from an online report regardoing Lugansk’s bankruptcy.:
A Greek court is still hearing the case of businessman Vasiliou Popadopoulos, who owes Ukrspetsexport $100,000 for a Lugansk-made assembly line for Luger 9x19 cartridges which was supplied back in 1997. And in Dec. 1998, the so-called “Yemen contract” was pushed through (contract #3/121, contractor - Ukrinmash, mediator - Ireland’s Balcombe Investments Ltd, tied to Kyiv businessman Timur Timmerman, formal customer - Yemen’s Defense Ministry, contract sum - $2.11M). Under the contract, seven cartridge lines were shipped to Yemen (for assembly of 7.62x39-8 Kalashnikov-47 cartridges). Similar equipment, produced abroad, costs up to $13M (you can imagine the commission received by some participants in the deal). Some sources say that the final destination was Iraq, and that this equipment is still running (operated by Lugansk engineers) in Baghdad’s north-western part.


#20

Vasiliou Popadopoulos was, perhaps is, Olympic and this timing (1997) is about the time he showed up on the US market with 9x19mm ammo (at the time the cases had “NPA” headstamps and appear to be Czech brass). This implies that all he acquired from Lugansk was a loading equipment, not equipment to produce cases.

Cheers,

Lew