Ukrainian expl girojet 9x19 ctges


#1

Maybe it will be interesting. From left to right:

  1. The first model with a brass jacket.
  2. Second version with a steel jacket and “Ball” bullet.
  3. “Ball” bullet.
  4. Cartridge with armor-piercing bullet БРМ (БР (lat. BR) - is armor-piercing, M - modernized).
  5. Armor-piercing bullet early type.

#2

Great Items.

Is there a photo of the base?

What is the weigth of the projectiles?

What is the headstamp?

Any added information would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Lew, I think will help you with this information a little later.


#4

I think these are no Gyrojets unless they have nozzles in the base which make the projectile spin.


#5

I suppose, that they are similar to Slovakian experimental rounds from fa. GrandPower, which were tested in 2007-8.


#6

And as they were correct to call it?


#7

Is this a Lugansk endeavor, or a smaller private experiment? And while we’re on rare Ukrainian pistol penetrators, do you know anything about the Snail-type loads advertised by Tacko from a few years ago?


#8

And as they were correct to call it?[/quote]

Should be “rocket assisted”.


#9

I received some additional information on these cartridges:

I have no idea of the relationship, if any between these cartridges and the Slovak cartridges that were produced by a Mr Kuracina from Slovakia who developed a similar looking cartridge a few years ago. Pictured below:

Cheers,
Lew


#10

By chance while searching the internet for photos I just happened to come across this topic after I had found a PDF file for a company called STILETTO Systems of the UK.

This just may be one in the same cartridge:

stiletto.uk.com/9mm.pdf


#11

Leon, yes, these are the same design. One of the directors and some of the people working at Stiletto Systems are also Ukrainian.


#12

Inertammo - is there any further information, other than what is in the Stiletto Report, about the 9 x 18 mm Makarov version of this? For example, the headstamp of the CWS cases used?

I know these rounds were test in the Ukraine, but do you know whether or not the were loaded in England, or in the Ukraine? The use of Starline brass would indicate to me that they were of English manufacture, with a very strong Ukrainian connection. Is that correct of erroneous.


#13

[quote=“LeonGeisler”]By chance while searching the internet for photos I just happened to come across this topic after I had found a PDF file for a company called STILETTO Systems of the UK.

This just may be one in the same cartridge:

stiletto.uk.com/9mm.pdf[/quote]

Leon, thanks a lot for the document. I am surprised that they refer to the “combustion chamber” as a ram-jet what is technically plain wrong. That makes me think if these people are really involved into the development or if they are just marketing someone else’s work without much own knowledge?


#14

Actually looking at their caseless 30mm grenade launcher round confirms my thought that they are using or marketing ideas of others in cluding from Russia and maybe others.
Their 30mm is nothing else but a caliber reduced copy of the Russian 40mm Balkan AGL round. Even their terminology there “reactive” grenade is typpical Russian vocabulary what indicates that they just take over what they get submitted and do not dare or care (or have the knowledge) to adjust terminology.

Their 30mm:
stiletto.uk.com/grenada.html

The Russian 40mm Balkan:
world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/balkan-e.html

EDIT:
Here their ammo related file:
stiletto.uk.com/book.pdf

There the AP is also described for the 7.62x25 Tokarev (Jon do you hear me?) and also in 7.62x54R.
Showing the eastern connection in my eyes.


#15

I find the page-2 term “Secret sauce” (alluding to their ammo’s unique attributes) to be interesting.

Here is an extracted page converted to an image file showing the data on 9mm and 7.62x25:


#16

I have been reading through all the literature from Stiletto Systems, and it has become hard to decide how to classify the nationality of this ammunition. Despite have a Wales, UK address, the various reports show signs of being written by one who, while quite good with the english language, is not writing in his “first language.” Secondly, the testing done with Soviet Calibers, primarily it seems in Ukraine at Lugansk Cartridge Works and at the State Scientific Criminal research Center, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Vinnytsia, as well as the use of Soviet Makarov and Tokarev Pistols and the Fort 9 mm Para caliber pistol made in the Ukraine speak to a Ukrainian origin.

It is of interest to me because of tests done with the Makarov Pistol. I will include that information in what I am writing on that subject, in the ammo section, but it would be nice to know exactly how to classify the country of origin of this ammunition.

I will contact the company with a series of questions, but my past experience with ammunition companies is that I will receive no reply. I should not pre-judge, of course, but such inquiries have been about 95% unanswered by ammo companies in my past research for various articles.

If anyone has any ideas about the primary national origin of this stuff, I will be most happy to hear from them, especially if they have any knowledge of the Makarov experimentals. They are obviously not standard in the Stiletto line.


#17

Names in Stiletto documents are certainly from former USSR zone, although some sound not like Ukrainian ones, but, rather, like names from some Asian republics of Soviet Union


#18

For some reason a similar patent is held by Barnaul Cartridge Plant since 2009:


#19

The main inventors mentioned in the patent assigned to Barnaul are two Ukrainians named Roman Karpenko and Oleksandr Kalachev, which are also two of the four directors of Stiletto Systems. The other two directors are Khalit Khabibullin (Russia) and Philip Duggan (England), but none are mentioned in the patent.

The rest of the people mentioned in the invention are: Larisa Jakovchuk (Ukrainie), Mars Khadisov (Russia), Jashchev Zakhar (Russia) and Nikolaj Kainov (Russia). The last three are involved in several patents assigned to Barnaul.

I guess it depends on personal criteria to say whether this is an Ukrainian or Russian invention, or of both nationalities.