Umc 18 gauge


#1

I don’t find any trace of 18 gauge shotshells in Umc catalogues.
why?
jp


#2

JP-In the U.S. the 18 ga. was strickly an experimental round. I believe only one lot was ever made. That is why they never were in a catalog…

They were made by Remington-UMC NOT U.M.C.


#3

Iverson in "Shotshells in the U.S."claims the 18 ga was made in 1905 & headstamped UMCCo.On the other hand an 18 ga speciman is known with that headstamp & the topwad marked “Rem-UMC”.Perhaps this experimental run was made after 1911 with a doctored bunter?


#4
  1. There is a 18 Gauge nitroclub experimental ctge made by REM-UMC in 1913.
    I don’t know exactly the hstp.

  2. There are also 18 gauge ctges with the hstp " N


#5

The 1 7/8" long, salmon paper 18 ga with the U.M.C.Co, No NITRO CLUB 18 (read 12, 9, 6 & 3) headstamp was made for a John Browning personal shotgun, so I understand. The green and black topwad on mine reads" 18 [over] Infailable [over] 3/4 C 7 1/2 [over] U.M.C."
They are also found with a 20 ga. headstamp, I am not sure the why of that, perhaps a second run? Yes I know why not just keep using the 18 & I’ve no answer.
This as noted above has nothing noting Remington or the merger on it.

Dick
Given the manufacturing of and the usage of a bunter you can only remove letters / numbers not add them to “doctor” a headstamp. Perhaps you mean a printers moveable type used to print text on paper with? A bunter is commonly used to make headstamp impressions.


#6

In the description of Lot 761 of Volume 10, Number 1 ( page 85), which had the No. 20 headstamp on the No. 18 shell, Buttweiler states


#7
  1. When I said; Dick is perhaps right when he says they used a doctored bunter after 1911" in fact I didn’t realize what was the meaning of “doctored”.
    I thought it was meaning “using an old bunter with UMC hstp, instead of the new Rem-Umc hstp”.

  2. When was made the special John Browning shotgun ?
    In 1905 ? Or in 1913 ?

JP


#8

Can’t tell you when Browning’s gun was made. Sorry. But doubtfull after reading Rich B comments about RTB sale records it would be ca. 1913, even though Remington was packaging ammunition with U.M.C. headstamps. The gun / ammo might have been anytime from 1905 on, untill Rem. started using the Nitro Club trademark.

Perhaps the Browning collectors assoc. site?


#9

[quote=“Pete deCoux”] The gun / ammo might have been anytime from 1905 on, untill Rem. started using the Nitro Club trademark.

[/quote]

??? Why ? Rem -Umc didn’t start to use Nitro club trademark as soon as they joined UMC ???
JP


#10

JP–Remington-UMC did use the “Nitro Club” trademark right from the beginning in 1911. Here is a page from the 1911-12 catalog. It was last listed in the 1937 catalog with the note “All to be Discontinued” They were first listed by U.M.C. in the 1900 catalog.


#11

Hi Ron, thanks to have confirm that.
It is what I had so I do not understand the sentence of Pete :
"The gun / ammo might have been anytime from 1905 on, untill Rem. started using the Nitro Club trademark"
What does it mean ? I do not understand the “untill”.
JP


#12

Well Ron notes that Rem. started using it, at least in the catalogs, in 1911/12 So that leaves from 1905 until 1911/12.
You had hard dates of 1905 and 1913 in your post. The “until” meant that there was not a “hard” date that I knew of. It could have been made anywhere along that time line.
The Rem/UMC joining/take-over took a number of years to complete. It is not unusual to find UMC headstamps in a Rem. marked box
My understanding is it was from 1911 till perhaps about 1915?
Please could someone confirm / deny or perhaps expand on this?


#13

If you don’t mind while you are on Rem/UMC Co. When were the Game Loads made? How common are Game Load Window shells? Wat does the letters E.C. stand for?

Thanks,
Doug D


#14

Doug–The Remington Game loads were produced from 1922 to 1934. As for the window shells, all window shells are fairly uncommon. I have no idea, since I do not collect shot shells, just how rare Game Load window shells are. I do not know what the “E.C.” stands for.


#15

EC is the powder

American “EC” Powder company ltd Oakland, Bergen Co, N.J.
jp


#16

JP-Yes, E.C. is an early smokeless powder, but what do the letters “E.C.” stand for?


#17

According to Sharp Complete Guide to Handloading pages 142-149 E.C. type powder formula was patented by Reed & Johnson for the explosives company of England in 1882. The explosives company sent Captain Albert William Money to the U.S to form the Anglo-American E.C Powder Co. in 1890. The plant was set up in Oakland NJ. There is no mention of anybody with the names starting with E. or C. being associated with the company neither does any of the ingredients start with E. or C.
The Winchester company started loading American E.C. and Shultz powders in shotshells in 1893. This being the first American company to use smokless powder in shotshells. A powder called E.C. blank was used for years in military 30-06 blanks but do not know if this is the same formula or not.

Gourd


#18

Explosives Company = E.C. Powder was patented in 1882 #619 by Walter F. Reid and D. Johnson. A British factory was then started at Green Street Green, near Dartford in Kent.
From the book: Explosives Their Manufacture, Properties tests and History by Authur Marshall (He was the Chemical Inspector, Indian Ordnance Department) published in 1915


#19

Thanks Pete–Another of lifes’ little mysterious solved.