Un known cartridge


#1

Hi.
I recieved an unknown cartridge.
It dose not has any headstamp marking.
I want to know information about that.
Please help me.
Thanks


#2


#3


#4

And extra photo


#5


#6

Dose it 9 mm?
Why the bullet is unusual?


#7

Yaserdoma, do you have better images of the headstamp or the case head?

The bullet and case do appear much like an improvised production. Means made with simple tools under not very good conditions.
I assume this is from a recent conflict region with non-state actors?


#8

I think EOD is on the right track. I have one that looks about the same and it is headstamped
ESCORT 9mm
Note says Blank or TG case (with bullet loaded) ITALY.

Dan


#9

Thanks.
I got them from my friend and i dont have any more.


#10

That usually are shortenend or otherwise altered cases from 9x22 PAK Blanks and than loaded with lead or zink and also seen loaded with steel ballbearings.
I have several, coming from Libanon, Irak and Turkeye with or without headstamp. The hs is not important, as the maker of the cases with headstamps are not the actual loaders of this manipulated form with “bullets” on.
I have them with Escort and Platin headstamp, and without.

09%2C00PA%20COBRA%20u%20PLATIN%20hs%20Manipulated1


#11

Thanks FORENSIC.
It seems three cartridge in above photo are diffrent.


#12

Thanks FORENSIC,
I notice the bullet shape is fairly consistant, like maybe there is one major player making a lot of the conversions.

Dan


#13

The bullet shape is merely the result of the tip of a drill (normally 118°) which was used to drill holes into a piece of steel to be used as a casting die.
So if 2 people do the same thing in 2 very different locations it is highly likely they will use a drill which has the said 118° angle or something near depending on how often the drill was sharpened and how skilled the person was and what material one intended to drill.


#14

Good Point!
So the consistency is from the bullet mold/mould.

Thanks,
Dan


#15

Yes, basing on the commonly available tools which are technically standardized all around the world.


#16

My understanding was that these cartridges, and the “converted” (formally) less-than-lethal guns that fired them, were a criminal enterprise. I have heard mixed opinions of the country of origin of these conversions, though. I firmly believe they are related, and while their crudeness may rule out complete interchangeability, they are all very, very similar to each other, too much in my view to be a coincidence. Also, they show up most with the Escort and Platin headstamps, of course original to the cartridges in their initial loading, and meaning nothing, as said above, on the converted rounds.

I don’t know how they got out into collectors hands, but I know they are in a lot of collections. I have the Escort and Platin headstamps myself, although I have never seen the “Cobra” headstamp on any cartridge.

John Moss


#17

I think they showed up in the AFTE Journal some years ago, or in another LE publication. I think the ammo and the converted blank pistols are a cottage industry in a number of locations in the Middle East.

Lew


#18

Hi John,

The Cobra 9 mm P.A. Blank was made for an Italian company named Di Blasio Elio. This is their website, but they not longer offer these cartridges: http://www.diblasioeliofireworks.it/

Saludos,

Fede


#19

hello
i think the cartridge on the first pictures are modified from 8mmK or “315” (size of head and primer)


#20

That is soo cool. Thanks for sharing!