Unknown 11.15x57


#1

I got these 4 cartridges from the same gun shop, the two on the left are 11,4 x 57 R Reformado (Cuban “P M H 96” and Spanish “S A 3 84”) and the 2 identical 11.15x57 on the right “Je Ne Sais Pas”. Who is the manufacturer of 2 rounds on the right? I include the headstamp scan which has nothing written.



#2

My money’s on UMC manufacture…but that’s just a guess.
Happy New Year to you all!


#3

for what it is worth I agree with Jim - UMCCo


#4

I agree. They look to me like the Spanish Remington M.1871 model.


#5

Yes, the two headstamped cartridges are the 11.xx x57 Reformado Spanish RB cartridges, which were an “Improvement” with greater Powder capacity, of the original .43 Spanish Remington ( M71). Also the taper gave better extraction. It was also probably to recover original M71 chambers which were pitted etc. at the neck and throat area.
The increase in Bullet diameter was probably due to the wear of the original M71 Rifling…“Freshening out” was a common practice in BP days, leading to the need for a greater diameter bullet, even if BP rifling was pretty tolerant of wide variations of Bullet diameter vis-a-vis Barrel calibre and Groove dimensions.

“Reformado” in Spanish, means “Improved, Repaired, Up-graded, etc”, even though a “literal” translation could be taken as “re-formed” or “changed”…all of these interpretations could apply to the Tapered cartridge.

BTW, the left Two, unheadstamped cartridges are M71 Remington, probably UMC made, as these were sold World wide with RRBs abd Rem-Lee Rifles in the 1870s-80s and 90s. Also the M71 cartridge would chamber and fire in a Reformado Chamber (but Not vice versa) so finding them in a batch of ammo probably from Spanish Cuba or Puerto Rico or PI, ( probably a Bannerman acquisition post Span-Am War) would not be strange.

Happy New Year…Prospero Ano Nuevo!

Regards,
Doc AV


#6

This one is from a commercial .43 Spanish box by UMC. Looks to be pretty much the same as yours.


#7

Speaking of the Spanish Reformado cartridges, whatever factory loaded or reloaded these (almost all cases in the 20-rnd box have a different headstamp) seem to have had a wee bit of a quality control issue!!


#8

I vaguely recall someone saying that the style of box shown in the photo was used by surplus dealer Francis Bannerman of New York to repack and sell off captured Spanish ammunition, thus accounting for the mixed origins and condition of rounds in each box.
I cannot confirm if it is accurate, but sounds plausible, and I have seen several dozen of these boxes over the years.


#9

JohnS – That wouldn’t surprise me a bit. The fellow I got this box from about 20 years ago had several wood crates of boxes but he didn’t tell me where they came from. He did say the ones he had opened all had mixed headstamps and a mixture of bottleneck and tapered cases but they all had the brass plated bullets. If I had something to shoot them in I would have bought more, they were cheap.


#10

I like the double rimmed round. It is amazing that this wasn’t discarded when the rounds were first packed, and it made it through being repacked into the box it came in.


#11

The worst looking reformado cartridges seem to be the Havana-made ones and if, as I suspect, many of the folks involved in actual production were disaffected Cubans it might be that sabotage was the intent in some cases. Jack