Unknown 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser headstamp


#1

This unknown headstamp is found in two different 7,65 x 54 mm Argentine Mauser M. 91 nickeled dummies, one with three knurled cannelures and another including six flutes (as the one in the picture). The first is a typical DM-K dummy (367E1) that can be found with cases dated between 1891 and 1894 and the other is an Argentine model made with cases dated between 1892 and 1897.

Same headstamp was also found on an unidentified 7,65 x 51 Rimmed dummy cartridge with nickeled case and three knurled cannelures. Rim and head diameter match those of the 6.5 x 54 R Beaumont-Mauser case number 392B and it may be DWM case no. 369 from 1891 (M./91 Kal. 7,65 mm Beaumont). It looks like a typical DM-K dummy.

Can anybody provide information about this headstamp? Any other examples?


Mystery cartridge
#2

Fede, I am at work at the moment and cannot confirm this but I believe that the ECRA database shows a 6.5x54 with the same hs. The 7,65 x 51 Rimmed example you mention was also shown in IAA journal #427 and was found in Sweden.


#3

Those look similar to the markings found on various Argentine dated “FAMMAP”-style headstamps.


#4

Brad, thanks for the extra information. If its possible I would like to see a picture of the 6.5 x 54 M-S dummy.

Jon, yes, those symbols are very similar to what we call an escarapela (Argentine rosette), which is one of our national symbols. It was first used on ammunition by F.A.M.M.A.P. in 1939.


#5

Fede, this isn’t a 6.5x54MS - it has too large a case, similar to a M88 Mauser probably a 7.65x54 necked ? It’s in the ECRA database viewer as a 6,5 x 54 Mauser XPL (07 054 BGC 120) with the comments:

Country Turkey
Weapon Rifle, carbine
Notes Catalog “Museo Artilleria de Segovia Nr.6938-33”.
From 7,65 x 53 Mauser turc case made by SFM (Contract April 1891) drawing 7028. Do you have this SFM drawing ?


#6

Brad, wonderful information! I don’t have a copy of that drawing but maybe some other members can help.


#7

Fede, between us all we have a lot of information. I will provide the SFM drawing and an image from the "Notes Catalog “Museo Artilleria de Segovia Nr.6938-33” when I get home after work.


#8

Fede…I have some 7.65 x 54 Mauser with the circle within a circle that Jon mentioned and you have now “enlightened” us about. So, you are saying it is one of the national symbols of Argentina and is included in headstamps like saying "Made in Argentina, but not denoting anything particular about the cartridge, yes?

Randy


#9

Randy, in cartridges like .45 A.C.P. and 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser headstamped F.A.M.M.A.P. ⊚ 1939 ⊚ it also indicates the first production of 1939 (the second was headstamped F.A.M.M.A.P. // 1939 \). I don’t know the reason for this quick change but it may be because the bunters were complicated to make and they choosed a simplified form. In bigger calibers -with bigger headstamps- like .50 Browning it was used until 1956 (F.M.“S L” ⊚ 12,7 ⊚ 56 ⊚).


#10

Here are the two images Fede

I have copied these from the ECRA database.

The SFM drawing is from Phillipe Mention who was very helpful in the French Section of my books.

My French is not great but I assume this shows that it was produced by SFM. However, you can’t just assume that because some SFM drawings show cartridges produced by other companies; eg Utendoerffer, Keller etc

The extract from “Museo Artilleria de Segovia Nr.6938-33” and the photos of the 6.5x54 shown in a previous thread were from Fernando Suárez Navarette.

Now might be a good time to put a ‘plug’ in for the ECRA Database viewer. Several (many ?) of you may have this already but in case you don’t the last update from Jean Renard has:

23433 specimens
13090 calibers
18542 pictures
10038 documents
11816 synonymes and
11 appendices

It may not have the headstamp variety of municion.org but it has far more calibres. A lot of SFM drawings from Phillipe Mention have recently been added and a lot of great cartridges from the 'Woodin Laboratory (Bill Woodin) were added in the last year. Much of Heinrich Kohlmann’s collection is in there also. Many other people have also been working to get the information and identification more accurate. It is a great reference for the serious cartridge researcher. Not cheap but it has updates available via the Internet and they are more than once a month. Details from the ECRA website:

http://www.ecra.info/start.php


#11

Brad, thank you very much for all this great information. I can hardly read the SFM drawing but it clearly says “d’apres les échantillons remis en Avril 1891” (from samples provided in april 1891). There is also a description of the dummy cartridge in the lower text. I still have the impression that I was actually made by DM-K.