Unknown 9mm Blank


#1

Just got the note below. Can anyone identify this headstamp. It is probably a 9mm Knall/9mm PA blank.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers,

Lew

[quote] Hey Lew,
I have another headstamp I need to ID. Can you give me a hand with this one? It’s a blank ctg with a green plastic nose cap.

I’m back in Iraq. I’ll be back home in a couple of days.
[/quote]


#2

Sounds like a 9mm PAK gas-gun blank? Could it be one of those Umarex brand blanks, or maybe one of the lesser known types like IWG, Retay-sport, or YAS. They usually say “PAK” or “blank” on the headstamp for those types of cartridges though.


#3

Not entirely sure. Possibly Armscorp Products Corp of the Phillipines. I have contacted them to confirm or deny as they usually mark AP, ACP. I will post if I get a response.

[color=#800000]Amscor states: Please be advised that we do not manufacture ammunition nor ammunition component with the headmark “APC 9mm”.[/color]


#4

Should see the lengthwise photo of theis blank:

9mm PAK ( Pistole-Automatische-Knall) is a 9x22 case with a Plastic charge insert, roll crimped into the mouth of the case; the plastic “bubble” bursts on firing, and this causes the shell to be ejected.

The case is the same diameter as a .223 case ( .375-8 ") to prevent chambering a “real” 9mm Parabellum Manovre Patrone. (.390-.395 head); other similar case is the M1907 Browning (Swede) 9mm Long

The 9mm PAK is a recent “invention” ( 1990s-early 2000) for a range of “Imitation” Die cast metal Automatic Pistols made by several European makers ( “Bruni srl”, Milan and also Turkish “Replica makers.”)

Prior to that, there were only 9x17 Knall ( Revolver and starting Gun blanks–RWS/DAG) and the 8mm Gas-Pistole/ Alarm-Pistole cartridge ( a 7,65x19 Blank ( plastic insert, rolled mouth) for Imitation guns.

The dimensional differances supposedly prevent the interchange with Real Blanks (which would be disastrous in the weak, direct blowback, soft metal replicas) but confusion still exists in a lot of Markets, where before 9mm Real Blanks ( 9x19 extended neck) were and are available… at least Several times a year, our company has got to go thru a long discussion with customers wanting “9mm Blanks” as to what they realy want…9mm revolver Knall (Rimmed) or 9mm PAK or 9mm Parabellum for real guns…and some customers are still confused…until they find the “9mm Blanks” they bought from other suppliers have either not worked , Not chambered, or if they have, blown the gun up!!!.

Armscor of the Philippines (Not “Armscorp” etc) does make 9mm PAK and 9x19 Parabellum Blanks, as the market requires. (personal contact).

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services
Brisbane Australia.


#5

It certainly sounds like it’s a P.A.Knall cartridge to me, but the PAK cartridges that I have come across in numerous photos that I have collected off the net all seem to have “PAK” or “P.A.Knall” on the headstamp, and I’ve yet to see a brand that could possibly have the above stamp on it.


#6

Below are photos of the blank. I agree with you Leon, it sure looks like a P.A. Knall blank.

Cheers,

Lew


#7

The style of the cartridge shown is a 9mm Knall patrone, but it is hard to confirm what it is without measurements. I don’t know off hand what the “APC” headstamp signifieds. A few companies make these with several different headstamps - very confusing - and then there are other companies that make them with their own headstamps. Very few seem to match the headstamps found on “live” ammunition (bulleted cartridges), even from the same makers.
I have a small collection of them and have not identified nearly all the headstamps by maker.

John Moss