Unknown 9mm with Chalk(?) Bullet

The attached pictures show two 9mm I recently acquired with what appear to be chalk(?) bullets. The cases are H/s ‘H^N 9mm 44’ and ‘B^E 9mm 43’. I have never seen anything like them, the fact that the H/s are different makes me think that they are reloads but the primers look original to me. Has anyone any information on these please?

Thanks in advance

Ian

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Ian,

I know of three, all in my collection and all from very old collections,
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/british-hn-9x19mm-with-chalk-bullets/30666

Now you turn up two more. I suspect they were very short range practice cartridges, apparently loaded shortly after WWII or no earlier than 1944 from pulled down ball rounds or if done during the war using primed empty cases. All have a clear lacquer on the bullet so all were likely made by the same organization to the same “spec”. It is possible they were british military, or Territorial Army. I would love to know what powder they contained and how much, but can’t figure out a way to pull one apart without destroying it. I have never seen a BE one before.

I hope someone has some insights.

Cheers,
Lew

It is odd that the bullets seem to be in much worse condition than the cartridge cases???
It would surprise me if the projectiles are actually chalk. I don’t see how those would stand up to firing them, unless they are propelled by a very light powder charge or only the primer itself. Have either of you that have them weighed them to try to determine the approximate weight of the projectiles?

John Moss

I manage to remove one of the bullets which was only finger tight.
It weighs 12.6 grains, but is slightly damaged on the tip so is probably a tad more. The propellant weight was 3 grains.

Those tiny air holes have the appearance of cast plaster of Paris Ian…strange!

Interesting thing. And the powder?

A pic of the powder below. I am not sure if the rules permit this, can admin delete the post if it is not allowed.

Does it has a little greenish color too? Could be Brittish indeed. What is the weight of the powder?

3 Grains, see the above post with the bullet.

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