Unknown 9x19 GR headstamp


#1

Hello, who made this 9x19 ?

9MM GR

Regards.Ave


#2

This one beats me! I have no idea who made this headstamp .

There is a headstamp “GR 9mm LUGER” which was made by Fiocchi and reportedly 50,000 rounds were made and sold to somebody/country in Africa.

There is also a headstamp “GRIEF 9x19” made by MFS in Hungary for the firm Schonebeck in Germany, and some have speculated that the “GR 9mm LUGER” headstamp was actually a commercial load for Schonebeck. I have seen no evidence of this.

Wish I could help more. Perhaps someone else has this answer.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

I came across this old thread:


#4

AVEDANZIG. This one is very different that the “GR” made by Fiocchi. Can you advise of this is on a blank cartridge or what type of loading? Light stamping reminds me of some of the newer Turkish cartridges. The loading may help put the research in to the right direction.


#5

Anybody here with an image of the Fiocchi “GR” hs?


#6

GR by Fiocchi

(sorry kept trying to edit to get pic to load automatically but no luck…now it just started to work…lol)


#7

Lew, as you mentioned above, the cartridge headstamped GR 9mm LUGER was made by Fiocchi and has been found in standard Fiocchi boxes, but the original box for this cartridge is labeled:

9 LUGER
50 CENTRE FIRE CARTRIDGES
FULL METAL JACKET
WARNING KEEP OUT THE REACH OF CHILDREN
GR

The “GR” is much bigger than the rest and it is located at right in perpendicular position (its identical to Leader brand boxes from the same period). I couldn’t find who was the owner of this trademark, but some of this boxes were offered in the Dutch market at very low prices with a warning about possible stuck bullets due to low charges.

It is not related in any way to “Greif” brand cartridges made by MFS, which is an exclusive trademark of DEURUS Handelsgesellschaft mbH, not SK Jagd- und Sportmunition GmbH. To add to this confusion, “Greif” brand cartridges were also sold by Leader Trading GmbH, and “Leader” brand cartidges by Nimrod GmbH, but none of these companies actually owned any of these brands.

AveDanzig, wish I can help you, but I don’t know which company made/ordered this particular “9 MM GR” headstamp.

Regards,

Fede

Edit: as pointed by EOD, correct headstamp/trademark spelling is “Greif”, not “Grief”.


#8

Past discussion on the GR fiocchi headstamp:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2466


#9

[quote=“cartridgecorner”]

GR by Fiocchi

(sorry kept trying to edit to get pic to load automatically but no luck…now it just started to work…lol)[/quote]

Thanks a lot cartridgecorner, finally we all know what it is about.

BTW: that other hs reads “GREIF” (bird of prey) not “GRIEF”.


#10

So to recap a complex thread, or try to recap!

None of us know who made the “9MM GR” headstamp started this thread with.

We all seem to agree that the “GR 9mm LUGER” cases were made by Fiocchi (based on the boxes) but it appears from a referenced thread that some think they were loaded elsewhere, like S&B.

All Agree that the “GREIF 9x19” were made by MFS for DEURUS who ownes that trademark and has no relationship with the “GR 9mm LUGER” headstamp.

All pretty complex getting to this point. If I have it wrong above, please help me!

Cheers,
Lew


#11

Thanks Lew, your summation of the longer older discussion is how I interpret as well. Well put.
Does anyone have a pic of the MFS made Greif Headstamp as well to round out the cartridges in this discussion?


#12

[quote=“Fede”]
It is not related in any way to “Greif” brand cartridges made by MFS, which is an exclusive trademark of DEURUS Handelsgesellschaft mbH, not SK Jagd- und Sportmunition GmbH. To add to this confusion, “Greif” brand cartridges were also sold by Leader Trading GmbH, and “Leader” brand cartidges by Nimrod GmbH, but none of these companies actually owned any of these brands.
quote]

The owner of the wholesale Company Leader (Jürgen Landich) and the Owners of Deurus Wholesellers (Kassuhn) are old friends, and thats why they distribute the brands of each other to their very own customers. The Company Nimrod GmbH was the forrunner of the DEURUS Company and Nimrod went bancrupt due to Problems with slow or none payment by their Clients in the years immediatelly after the fall of East-Germany. Nimrod was the owner of the SKN Trademark and some others . I will ask R.Kassuhn, which brands they had registered at that time…Just to clarify, why different companies sold their products vice versa…

PP


#13

Cheers,
Lew


#14

Thank you very much for a lot of information and summation. Now this matter looks more clearly

Regards.Ave