Unknown 9x19 Luger ID, please


Here is another puzzle - unknown for me 9x19 Luger. No headstamped, magnetic bullet, overall weight - 190.0 grains (12.32 grams). In the attached images an imge of the crimp is also presented, if it will be of any help.



Ivo - didn’t we ID this one before? It appears to be Bulgarian. I have two specimens that came to me from Bulgaria. They are basically the same and meet the “look” of the round in your picture. Both mine have GMCS bullets. One cartridge weights 190.4 grains (12.33 Grams) and the other 191.5 grains (12.70 grams).

Regarding the crimp, both of mine have a segmented-mouth crimp pretty much the same as the round you picture. The nly difference between my two specimens is one has the mouth crimp appearing as a wider band around the mouth (wider from the mouth towards the cartridge base) than the other, and that cartridge has a narrower extractor groove and extractor-groove bevel than the other one. They probably just represent a slight change in specs perhaps to improve function. If that is the instance, than I would bet the one with the wider extractor groove is the later of the two cartridges, even though we could be talking only days or weeks, certainly not years! The cartridges, in my opinion, are too well made for it to represent just sloppy manufacturing standards.

If anyone feels these are not Bulgarian, please chime in, but again, my two rounds came to me from a knowledgeable collector in Bulgaria, and were represented to be Bulgarian. I have many un headstamped 9 mm cartridges, but none that are identical in features to these that I know came from some other country.


Well, John, it is not exactly the same specimen, albeit with similar overall appearance, so I decide to ask. The crimp is harder , there is some differences in the base appearance - extractor groove dimensions are different, the bevel of extractor groove and the bevel of the base are different too, as you mention in your post. See, I’m not so fluent in the realm of Luger cartridges as you are, so I prefer to ask, as for me the things are not so obvious. Thank you very much, your posts are so infomative for me, and communication with you is a great plesure for me too.



Ivo - am happy when I can help. Also glad to hear that yoo have both versions of the unheadstamped Bulgarian round as well, as that is a good sign that the two variations are just that- variations - and not just a single round with some manufacturing defects. While I was sure of that, some confirmation is always welcome.