Unknown 9x19 on M.E.N. brass

I saw this one at the Woodin lab and forgot to ask Bill about it. It has a bunch of holes drilled in the brass bullet, and sort of looks like a “Comp bullet”, but is different. It reminds me of a Soviet rocket pod:

Matt, this is a reduced range loading and I believe that in this caliber was purely experimental. It seems that this design is currently offered in 12.7x99 cartridges only (also 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 by other companies).

Thanks Fede!

Nice item. I have only seen the bullet, not the loaded round. It is purely an experimental bullet. I got mine from a German police source in 2003 along with a few 7.62mmN loaded rounds with a similar bullets, but the grooves were at an angle. The 7.62 was a trial sniper load for the police. I understood the 9mm bullet was also intended for police use.

This info could be less than precise so corrections appreciated.


Lew, do you remember if the bullet you saw was solid based or with a base cavity filled with a plug? The 7.62 bullet you describe seems to be a MEN SF-Geschoss, which is hollow point with a nose brass plug that was originally designed by Schirneker for hunting purposes.

After reviewing my notes on these cartridge I realize that there is actually no relation with later reduced range designs made in rifle and MG calibers, just a similar look (Matt, sorry, I can’t rely on my memory anymore!). In fact, now I believe that this bullet is a French reduced penetration design conceived to be stopped by a bulletproof vest with 24 layers of Kevlar. Also, there is a variation with different profile and solid base that was designed for doing exactly the opposite: it is reported that it penetrates a minimum of 48 layers.

This is the reduced penetration design:

Fede, My 9mm MEN bullet is solid brass.

There are also solid brass bullets with similar designs, some more similar to your drawing and are referred to as CTSI.