Unknown 9x19 on M.E.N. brass


#1

I saw this one at the Woodin lab and forgot to ask Bill about it. It has a bunch of holes drilled in the brass bullet, and sort of looks like a “Comp bullet”, but is different. It reminds me of a Soviet rocket pod:




#2

Matt, this is a reduced range loading and I believe that in this caliber was purely experimental. It seems that this design is currently offered in 12.7x99 cartridges only (also 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 by other companies).


#3

Thanks Fede!


#4

Matt,
Nice item. I have only seen the bullet, not the loaded round. It is purely an experimental bullet. I got mine from a German police source in 2003 along with a few 7.62mmN loaded rounds with a similar bullets, but the grooves were at an angle. The 7.62 was a trial sniper load for the police. I understood the 9mm bullet was also intended for police use.

This info could be less than precise so corrections appreciated.

Cheers
Lew


#5

Lew, do you remember if the bullet you saw was solid based or with a base cavity filled with a plug? The 7.62 bullet you describe seems to be a MEN SF-Geschoss, which is hollow point with a nose brass plug that was originally designed by Schirneker for hunting purposes.

After reviewing my notes on these cartridge I realize that there is actually no relation with later reduced range designs made in rifle and MG calibers, just a similar look (Matt, sorry, I can’t rely on my memory anymore!). In fact, now I believe that this bullet is a French reduced penetration design conceived to be stopped by a bulletproof vest with 24 layers of Kevlar. Also, there is a variation with different profile and solid base that was designed for doing exactly the opposite: it is reported that it penetrates a minimum of 48 layers.

This is the reduced penetration design:


#6

Fede, My 9mm MEN bullet is solid brass.

There are also solid brass bullets with similar designs, some more similar to your drawing and are referred to as CTSI.

Cheers,
Lew