Unknown 9x19mm #2


#1

This is a cartridge that I obtained recently at SLICS. It reportedly came from Hungary but it may not be Hungarian. Thee case is aluminum with two grooves. The overall weight is 155.7gr. The bullet has a slight waist in the cylinderical portion above the casemouth. Internet searches for Pocsik returns with lots and lots of names, many from Hungary.

Does anyone have any information on this cartridge?

My image has gone bad and when I try to reload from photobucket it doesn’t work.

The headstamp is “9x19 POCSIK”


Thanks for your help!

Cheers,

Lew


Another unknown 9x19
#2

Hello Lew,
I collect only shotshells, but the ones I have with POCISK on the case are all from Poland.
i hope this helps a bit.

Regards Rene


#3

Rene, That is a great lead. Any idea who the company is, or the location or any other information

Lew


#4

Lew,

Be careful. Your headstamp is “POCSIK,” and Rene’s shotshells are a different “POCISK.” Or … Rene has a typo. May or may not be significant. Thankfully, Gyrojets are not headstamped.

Mel


#5

Mel is right. The two are not the same. “Pocisk” is "Pocisk, Apolka Ckcyjna, of Warsaw, Poland.
I do not know who “Pocsik” is though. I doubt that it is a misspelling, although that has occured with headstamp bunters before (re: “Clot” for “Colt”, “7.65 LUGAR” for “7.65 LUGER” etc.)

Maybe even if they don’t know the headstamp, one of our Hungarian or multi-lingual European friends can tell us whether that letter combination is likely to be Hungarian or not.


#6

The Hungarian word “Pocsik” translates to “Lousy” in English.


#7

Oops, indeed I didn’t look good enough.
Sorry!

Rene


#8

Hi ! everybody…

Lew did ask me about this “POCSIK” name, which is CERTAINLY NOT a Polish name, maybe Hungarian (?)…

It should not be confused with the pre WW-II well known Polish ammunition company, known as (-sorry John, I am aware that the Polish language is quite a burden for those who are not used to it!)

                [b]POCISK SPOLKA AKCYJNA[/b]

Pocisk means “bullet”, or “projectile”, and so the name is

[i]Society by actions /i (for the production of) Projectiles or by extent “Ammunition”.

The Company was created in the mid-twenties, with several subsidiaries, the main being in downtown Warsaw, with assets in a good part coming from foreign investors, like the French S.F.M. or even Mandl from Austria.

It was the major not government-owned ammo facility in Poland, and it covered the major part of the Polish Army needs from 1934, also working for the civilian (commercial) market and even exporting, from the beginning of thirties.

When the Germans arrived, the premises were immediately occupîed, but curiously, practically no ammunition was made under the new owners 's supervision, the machinery being dismantled and sent in Germany, and the works being used as storage grounds by the Wehrmacht.

When the Occupation forces did retire, as the major part of the City, practically nothing but the walls and rubble had been left behind, but even with the coming back of some personals who did survive the war, the commy puppet “popular” government nationalised everything still in existence, seizing the remaing assets, and eluding the possibility to start again any military procurement.

Manufacture of bicycles under the Pocisk brand name was overviewed for a short period, but it did not go far, and the name of what had been a well-known actor of Ammunition production in pre-1939 Europe just disappeared for good… R.I.P…

Cheers!

Phil


#9

Phil - Glad to see the correct spelling. I got the spelling from the Cartridge Headstamp Guide, by W & M. I should have gone downstairs and looked at my book on Polish ammunition, or your headstamp books. I got lazy. I would never live in a two-story house again. Very nice when you are young - the pits when you get old and get tired of walking the stairs twenty or thirty times a day from the office to the library. Sorry about the bad spelling. Just wanted you to know it wasn’t mine!


#10

For us poor English speakers, reading letters is not as easy as it appears. For example the Hungarian alphabet I learn has 44 letters, but 4 of them (Q, W, X, Y) are only used in foreign words. It also turns out that “cs” is one of the unique letters in the Hungarian alphabet!

It is interesting that one version of some of the letters have a vague relationship to the symbol on my unknown #1!!!

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I suspect somebody out there has the answer or the hint that will lead to the answer and will come up with it eventually.

Cheers,

lew


#11

Lew, this cartridge was indeed made in Hungary by a small manufacturer named György Pócsik. He also made .38 Special aluminum cases with “POCSIK” headstamp and several types of bullets for 9 mm Parabellum, .38 Super Auto, .38 Spl., .40 S&W and .45 ACP cartridges.


#12

Fede, awesome info, thanks a lot!
Is any more known about this company like where it was/is located and when founded? Google was pretty quiet on this subject.
Are any boxes known from this company?


#13

What is the purpose of the cannelures on the head? Do they ease extraction?

Anyway, it seems that the bullet is very little pushed inside the case


#14

Fede, Great thanks!. I went on the internet looking for an address or even a URL but couldn’t find one.

Do you have either you can share? Or, perhaps a place to start!

I assume this is current. Can you confirm??

Many thanks AGAIN!

Cheers,
Lew


#15

Alex, Pivi & Lew, sorry for the late answer, I didn’t have much time to read the forum. I found this information a few years ago and I think it was mentioned in an Hungarian forum barely related to ammunition. No adress was published.

In my opinion the grooves were probably made to give the aluminum some elasticity during firing and avoid case wall cracking.


#16

Fede, Many thanks—as always! You really come through for us old guys who can only use computers as fancy typewriters!

Cheers,

Lew