Unknown ammo(Maybe 7.7x55mm?)

I bought some ammo,and then found it.
I browse the website “municion.org”, but I couldn’t find any information.
I want to know which type of ammo.


Case&Powder&Bullet:
C360_2017-09-07-23-49-45-223
C360_2017-09-07-23-56-39-386

Headstamp:
C360_2017-09-08-00-05-16-439

I measure and draw the measurements of case:

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Looks like it is a 30.06 made by United States Cartridge Co, Lowell Mass. It is an experimental using the impact extrusion method as marked by the two stars. Learned this from the CD that’s available from Curtis Steinhauer which has answered many questions I had. Thanks Curtis! Tom from MN

It looks like it might be a 7.65 m/m Mauser rifle cartridge using a reformed .30-06 case. Jack

The casemouth seems irregular…Is this an original cartridge?

Powder is a European Type Flake Powder, not the original Tubular grain Powder usedinb the 30/06 of 1918.

Case is an original Primed case, Primer still staked in these cases used in Aircraft MGs (Marlin, etc) in 1918.

I would say this is a 7,65 x 53 Mauser case, re-manufactured using old .30 cal ammo, but unless the original M1906 bullet has been “Bumped Up” from 7,82mm diameter (.308") to 7,96mm (as shown)/.313" ( correct for 7,65 Mauser Bullets), the thew Bullet is an original 7,65 calibre one, and this along with the flake Powder, points towards a “Remanufacture” by probably a South American country, Post WWI, using War surplus .30/06 of which there was very large quantities with “problems” both relating to the MR Powders, and the state of the Necks.

It could be as late as the Chaco War ( 1930s) where all sides used 7,65 calibre.

Given the Flake Powder, I doubt it was a US “remake” for a 7,65 user…I doubt someone like Bannermann would have gone to the trouble of using Imported European Powders. And Latin American Plants used imported Euro. Flake until late in the 1930s, when they had developed their own Powder Factories.

Interesting Problem. Any further RKI input?

Doc AV

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I thought the unknown case was 7.65x54mm Mauser(=7.65x53mm Mauser), but after comparing it, the case was different.This is a interesting discovery.


Size of 7.65x54mm Mauser:

I have heard that reloaders commonly use reformed .30-06 cases for 7.7x58 Japanese.

I did just that, used 30-06 cases to make serviceable ammo for 7.7 Japanese. Seeing the difference in case length I would consider that a possibility. The Flake powder is odd but I know of reloaders who have re-used powder from various military loads when loading various similar sized rounds. Whatever it is it certainly isn’t an 06 any more.

Tom, a .30 Model 1906 with this headstamp was not experimental, but a standard product manufactured using the so-called Hooker process that was installed at the plant on productive basis on July 1, 1916. Hundreds of millions of cartridges for US, British, Dutch and Russian contracts were made using this process.

Also, it does not involves impact extrusion, which uses a die with a solid bottom and the metal flows upwards, but a pierced die where the metal flows downwards. A cartridge made by standard drawing required eight separate operations, whereas one made using the Hooker process only three. It was invented by George W. Lee, who sold his patent rights to Leslie E. Hooker and others. One of the latest patents granted in 1920 is very interesting because it shows a mythical headstamp that is not reported to exist in any caliber: U.S.C. 17.

17

After the war, USCCo continued using this process to manufacture seamless radiator tubing.

Regards,

Fede

They also used this process to make bullets. Here is a sample box and the contents showing some jacket & core pieces, then assembly.
US rad core 45 boxcontets US rad core bx

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Pete, super interesting box, thanks for sharing.

In my opinion, your box was filled with pieces representing the manufacturing steps of the .45 Auto bullet, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the Hooker process, which to my knowledge was not used for bullet manufacturing.

A “cartridge radiator core” was a USCCo post-war automobile product that consisted in an extruded tube made of pure copper, also manufactured using the Hooker process. Below you can see two ads from 1921:

1921a

1921b

It’s interesting to see how many different handwritten boxes were used by USCCo to store draw pieces, and wonder where all these came from, because they are found in many calibers. For example, I recently saw two USCCo .32 LC boxes filled with case steps, one for 7.65 x 54 Mauser and the other for .38-55. The former is dated 6-21-20 and the latter 6-28-17.

Regards,

Fede

Hiowdy Fede
The dated boxes your talking about were used by Winchester to store draw pieces. I’m sure if you check the contents they will be Winchester Repeating Arms product. Here is an example of unmarked WRACo. blasting cap draw pieces.
DSCN3311DSCN3313DSCN3315

You well may be right these undated 45’s & 9’s are not radiator core / Hooker process pieces. I wish I knew for sure. I obtained the below 9mm box {& the 45} years ago from a former WRACo employee as at the time he had a large bunch of them at a Williamsport PA show. All contained bullets as I recall. I can’t positively identify them as USCCo or WRACo product for that matter, but boxes of the style you note do have Winchester marked items in them. There are a number of them in the Tillinghast collection.
Do you remember if the handwriting matched either of these boxes?
9mm HP rad core top9mm hp rad core

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Sorry to reply an old topic…
Recently I found a cartridge is very similarly to this one.They were all based on an US made .30-06 case,four crimps on the case mouth ,just the neck is a little longer

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hello
i think is a remaking of a 7.92x57 WW1 (with the bullet diameter “0.318”)
not the “0.324” diameter bullet of 7.92x57 IS

At 7.98 mm (0.314") the bullet is a little thin for the “old” 7.9 mm bullet diameter (typically 8.06 mm). And I know of no S-bullet shape FMJ made in the old diameter.
My guess would be the bullet was intended for Soviet 7.62 mm, 7.65 mm or 7.7 mm (.303). But surprisingly it is only 25.84 mm long. One would expect 28 mm something.