Unknown Cartridge


#1

I need help to ID the following cartridge. The diminsions are aproximate. My digital calipers battery died and I had to go back to a vernier caliper. There is no headstamp. Head is smooth with a Berdan primer

Bullet–0.430/11 mm
Case Mouth–0.430/11 mm
Head–0.504/12.9 mm
Rim–0.595/15.1 mm
Case Length–2.267/57.5 mm


#2

Ron…can we please see a scan of the base of the cartridge ?


#3

Randy–For what it is worth, here is a scan of the base. Not much to show. Primer is brass.


#4

.42 Russian Berdan ?


#5

Armourer–I suppose it could be a .42 Russian Berdan, but I have never seen one that did not have a round nose paper patched bullet or with a flat base. I guess the bullet could be a reload. Right now I am inclined to think that it is a 11x59R Gras, but then I have never seen one without the beveled base.


#6

Ron…Looking at the neck just below the bullet…appears to be “black staining”…evidence that a fired case was reloaded…what do you think ?


#7

Randy–It is possible this is a reload, but other than that staining, there are no other signs of of a once fired case.


#8

The staining on the head is also indicative of a reload.


#9

Randy & Guy-OK, I’m willing to accept that it is a reload, but what is the case type?


#10

I’m going to have to agree that it seems most like a Russian Berdan - that base measurement is about what the shoulder should be on the Russian, but otherwise it seems close.


#11

Guy–Shoulder of the unknown is aprox. 0.488/12.4mm, if that helps. Any suggestions of the maker with that flat base?


#12

Ron,
I struggle enough just trying to figure out what these unheadstamed cartridges are, and have my doubts that we have this one identified correctly. Other than the length, the dimensions seem scaled down a bit from a the dimensions I have from various sources the Russian Berdan. I would not want to even make a guess as to who made it.