Unknown Centerfire

I need a quick answer to what this cartridge is. I’m at a friends house and don’t have any of my books handy.

My guess with out checking dimensions is a .43 Remington Spanish.

Here are the dimensions:

.438 patch dia at top of case
3.020 OAL
Case length 2.365
Head diameter .588

It’s not a Spanish but a 43 Mauser

.45 Mauser would likely have the old Mauser “A” base, and this does not seem to have one. Or maybe not all .45 Mauser rounds had the A base. But it does look like some type of .43. Turkish or French Gras maybe? Dimensions are close. Does it have a HS?

Good point about the A-base, the Spanish has a case length of 2.24. The head dim for a Gras is about .540. the Turkish has a bullet dia of .456

No headstamp. Hey, that would have made it too easy. The base looks to me to be a U.M.C. product.

Hi all!

I think, that this is 11,4 x 59R Romanian Peabody or .450 Gatling…

THV–I don’t think so. According to Hoyem, the 11,4 x 59R Romanian Peabody has a bullet of 0.454 and a rim of 0.665. The .450 Gatling has a 0.452 bullet and a o.679 rim.

Are we ready to give up on this as an 11 m/m Mauser? It does look like one, and the available dimensions are consistent with that caliber. I’ve never heard of a folded head 11.15 x 60R, but I see no reason why there might not be one. Maybe this is it. Jack

Hi Ron, do you have a complete set of measurements and/or more pictures? By “head diameter” do you mean rim diameter?

Jack–Except for the head style, the 11.15 German Mauser would have been my first guess, but in 60 years of collecting, I have never seen that cartridge without the “A” base. I do agree that the dimensions fit that cartridge the best of any I have found so far.

Fede–I have emailed the guy with the cartridge for more dimensions, and especially confirming that his “head” is actually the “Rim”. I have also requested a picture of the head to try to pin down the maker. I still think it is a U.M.C. made cartridge.

I know about several samples with tolerances in diameter +/- 0,01" and in lenghts +/- 0,05". Here they are :

  • 44-95 Peabody What Cheer
  • 45 Gatling Field/Mountain gun
  • 450 Martini-Metford Experimental
  • 461 Gibbs No.1
  • 500/450 No. 2 Musket
  • 11,4 x 59 Japan Peabody
  • 11,4 x 59 Turkish Martini - Peabody
  • 11,4 x 60 Romanian Martini - Henry

But this is probably new caliber. For better designation here missing diam. of neck , rim and lenght of neck.

I finally got a picture of the head of this unknown. What appears in the original photo to be a balloon head is in fact a Mauser “A” base. The cartridge is 100% positive a 11.15 x 60R German Mauser cartridge. There is no headstamp, so, not sure who made it.

When I collected and studied UMC cartridges, I had one like this…I remember the consensus at that time was that it was made by Kynoch…

Randy