Unknown Centerfire


#1

I need a quick answer to what this cartridge is. I’m at a friends house and don’t have any of my books handy.

My guess with out checking dimensions is a .43 Remington Spanish.

Here are the dimensions:

.438 patch dia at top of case
3.020 OAL
Case length 2.365
Head diameter .588


#2

It’s not a Spanish but a 43 Mauser


#3

.45 Mauser would likely have the old Mauser “A” base, and this does not seem to have one. Or maybe not all .45 Mauser rounds had the A base. But it does look like some type of .43. Turkish or French Gras maybe? Dimensions are close. Does it have a HS?


#4

Good point about the A-base, the Spanish has a case length of 2.24. The head dim for a Gras is about .540. the Turkish has a bullet dia of .456


#5

No headstamp. Hey, that would have made it too easy. The base looks to me to be a U.M.C. product.


#6

Hi all!

I think, that this is 11,4 x 59R Romanian Peabody or .450 Gatling…


#7

THV–I don’t think so. According to Hoyem, the 11,4 x 59R Romanian Peabody has a bullet of 0.454 and a rim of 0.665. The .450 Gatling has a 0.452 bullet and a o.679 rim.


#8

Are we ready to give up on this as an 11 m/m Mauser? It does look like one, and the available dimensions are consistent with that caliber. I’ve never heard of a folded head 11.15 x 60R, but I see no reason why there might not be one. Maybe this is it. Jack


#9

Hi Ron, do you have a complete set of measurements and/or more pictures? By “head diameter” do you mean rim diameter?


#10

Jack–Except for the head style, the 11.15 German Mauser would have been my first guess, but in 60 years of collecting, I have never seen that cartridge without the “A” base. I do agree that the dimensions fit that cartridge the best of any I have found so far.

Fede–I have emailed the guy with the cartridge for more dimensions, and especially confirming that his “head” is actually the “Rim”. I have also requested a picture of the head to try to pin down the maker. I still think it is a U.M.C. made cartridge.


#11

I know about several samples with tolerances in diameter +/- 0,01" and in lenghts +/- 0,05". Here they are :

  • 44-95 Peabody What Cheer
  • 45 Gatling Field/Mountain gun
  • 450 Martini-Metford Experimental
  • 461 Gibbs No.1
  • 500/450 No. 2 Musket
  • 11,4 x 59 Japan Peabody
  • 11,4 x 59 Turkish Martini - Peabody
  • 11,4 x 60 Romanian Martini - Henry

But this is probably new caliber. For better designation here missing diam. of neck , rim and lenght of neck.


#12

I finally got a picture of the head of this unknown. What appears in the original photo to be a balloon head is in fact a Mauser “A” base. The cartridge is 100% positive a 11.15 x 60R German Mauser cartridge. There is no headstamp, so, not sure who made it.


#13

When I collected and studied UMC cartridges, I had one like this…I remember the consensus at that time was that it was made by Kynoch…

Randy