Unknown code on German WW2 7,9 Mauser clips


#1

I would translate the first clip as made by “452”; Fr. Drabert Söhne, Maschinenfabrik, later known as clip manufacturer “bnr”. The “40” could be 1940.
What means the “A4” in the middle?

The second one has the stamp 496a -54740
If “496” was the manufacturer, it should be Maybach Motorenbau.
I don’t bereave they made clips.

Thanks in advance.


#2

These, I call them “Anomalous Codes” because they don’t adhere to the “P” and then alphabetical series seen on German cartridge clips, are a mystery and I’ve never heard an explanation for their existence.

Here is the list I have for some of the makers, but apart from this I have no idea what the other parts of the markings stand for;

Peter

Post Scriptum,

As far as I know the only one of these listed makers who made 7.9mm clips … apart from this anomalous series, was 66C, Fressen & Co who used the alphabetical code “duq”.


#3

Thanks Peter

Best regards


#4

The late and much missed Phil Butler once sent me his list of 7,9x57 chargers, it made uncomfortable reading as there were so many that I didn’t have … and still don’t have.

Having pulled together lots of other lists I take Phil’s as being the most comprehensive, here are the “anomalous” codes that he’d noted;

3E 40
3E 41
5E 40
5F/41
5F 42
38G-40
66C 40
90F/40
274 A22
452 A4 40
496A 54740

Of these, only the 274 A22 is undated, with most being “40” which I assume to be 1940 whilst there are two “41’s” and one “42”.

Has anyone found these oddly coded clips in sealed boxes or are there any explanations that I’ve not heard for who they were made for ?

Peter


#5

Peter,

I only collect the 7,9 rounds and I have never give any attention to the clips. I am sorry.
In some boxes there are clips added to the packed ammunition. Some are new made and other packed with reused clips.

The Germans had a code system to confuse the allied.
Only the leading character was allowed to make products,
The code system was the number behind the “P” for ammunition all types, “Rh S” for fuses and fuse body’s, “Rdf.” for powder and explosives and the “S” for rifles. The number behind it was the plant code. A cartridge manufacturer who also made clips like P25 pressed the code also on the clip.

There also exist Branch identities of the state master of ordnance.
For the equipment manufacturers this is “A” If I translate this “A” to the A37 clip code I see a factory; Maschinenfabrik Donauwört GmbH with the later code “feh”
Unfortunately I cannot tell if there are clips known made by “feh”. You know it better.

It is only a theory.

Best regards


#6

Dutch,

No clip made by “feh” has appeared on any of the lists I’ve seen.

I’d half assumed that with “A37” and “B35” clips the dates were 1935 and 1937, but with no evidence to back it up.

Another unusual clip is marked “DWM-36” … unusual in that commercial production seems to have usually been undated.

Maybe the mystery of these clips will never be solved, but I’m still looking for a “B35” one.

Peter


#7

I need one in better condition.
Brass with magnetic spring.

Joe


#8

Magnetic shell and spring.
Peter, is yours the same?


#9

I dont belief that the code 5 F 41 and 5 F 42 exist.
I belief the code is only bad stamped.The correct code is 5 E 41 and 5 E 42
I add the strip E 5 40,41 42 and the factory label 5 E Otto Fechler Bernsbach bei Schwarzenberg/Erzgebirge in Sachsen.


5 E 40 Kiste)
5 E 42 B klein

Norbert
I am always looking for 7.92x33 labels and Hs for my book about the development and production of the 7,9 mm Kurzpatrone 43


#10

Norbert,

I don’t know for sure if it is a broken bunter stamp. look at your picture next to my clip picture, the stamp is different.

Joe

Grey phosphate steel.


#11

Joe,

Many thanks for showing the “B35” marked charger, I’d not seen one before.

My “A37” one is shown in my November 3rd post and is just like yours except the marking on mine is more faint and the nickel plate is lifting.

As for the 5E/5F conjectue I’m not well place to judge. I only have a 5E/40 and that’s clearly stamped with a dark grey phosphate finish. Without a 5F example in my hands it’s difficult to judge from the pictures, all the more so by the lower edge of the marking running into the stiffening groove.

Peter

Edit … what is interesting is the different styles shown on the same marking, my 5E/40 is quite unlike Norbert’s which makes me think of two different bunters and maybe quite a large production run … but these weren’t just marked 1940, they were also marked 1942 and that’s a scarce year for German clips, with only three makers; “EXQ”, “DZA” and “GHX” known to me. In comparison there were 14 in 1941 and 11 in 1943.

I don’t suppose we’ll ever know who these differently marked chargers were made for, or why, but does anyone fancy making a guess ?


#12

I have found one other anomalous code on a brass clip

Norbert


#13

Norbert,

These clips aren’t German, they were made in Yugoslavia. I’m away from home at the moment and don’t have my notes, but I’m sure someone can tell you the maker.

Peter


#14

Peter,

I believe you may be thinking of the Serbian Government Arsenal, Vojno-Tehnicki Zavod in Kragujevac? The problem is they changed markings in about 1915 to CXC and then AT3 and BT3 by the mid 30’s…

Joe


#15

Norbert,

As you may know the German code “ck” was assigned to Kabel- u. Metallwerke Neumeyer (“pmt” 1944 - 45), but for there München, Lilienthalstraße location.

Do not know when they started manufacturing.

Joe


#16

Joe,

I dont believe that ck is the code.
The date of Issue of the Letter Block caa-czz was March 1941.
The latest seen stripper clip in brass is P 40 .
I believe some makers changed the code numbers and the code letters and later the C .
See
36,37,38,39 P 423 but P 423 40
and 37 P,38 P but P 39 P 40;
mpu- 44; mpu -C -44; C-mpu- 45
The B 35 is 35 B Robert Klingebiel later dcf .
A37 is 37 A Zwickauer Mschinenfabrik later cty
and CK 35 is 35 CK perhaps 35 C Singer Nähmaschinen AG later aql an K the jear 1934 code .

Norbert


#17

From memory Branko Bogdanović shows this clip and marking in his book on Serbian Mauser rifles, which is where I took my attribution from.

Also from memory the “C” in (for example) mpu - C - 44 indicates a change in the thickness of steel used to make the clips, a measure designed to save strategic materials during a time of shortage.

Can anyone confirm this ?

Peter


#18

Peter the change in the thicknes was:
The frame from 0,54 - 0,02 to 0,45 -0,02 and the thick of the leaf spring from 0,33 to 0,30-0,02 .
I add the document from 8. June 1944 from the Arbeitsausschuß Ladestreifen des Sonderausschusses Im Hauptausschuß I Munition.

The factories flp and hrh already started this change in 1943.

Norbert

I am always looking for information and box labels 7.92x33 Kurzpatronen 43 for my book about the development and production.