IAA headstamp reference says “Unknown Factory, West Germany ca’1965”. Is it still “unbekannt”?
IAA headstamp reference says “Unknown Factory, West Germany ca’1965”. Is it still “unbekannt”?
sksvlad, the “I.A.C.” is known as it stands for INTERARMS as shown by the boxes it came in.
Who made it has been a major discussion point in the past with arguments being put forward for: DWM, FN, Norma and Metallverken. Maybe someone (Fede ?) has something definitive on this.
I have seen two different caliber boxes, one made by Svenska in Sweden the other by FN Belgium. May be others but these are the only makers I have seen with IAC markings.
Curtis, to be clear on what you are saying - you have only seen two Interarms boxes with manufacturers markings : Svenska Metallverken and FN ? - they were for two different calibers (but not 7.5x55 ?)
This info re FN manufacture is repeated in the ECRA Dataviewer for an example from Leo Peter.
The idea that DWM (ie IWK) produced it has probably evolved from the “Unknown Factory, West Germany ca’1965” reference and the fact that DWM did produce the 7.5x55 for sporting purposes (but only up to WW2). DWM production is doubtful.
Here are images of known sporting (or commercial style) hs for the 7.5x55:
From these, you can see that the “norma 7,5 SWISS” hs is similar but not the same (7’s are different, uses “,” instead of “.”). But you can see that the fonts are close and this could be the reason that Norma was mentioned as a likely candidate. Note that evidently the Norma cases were supposed to be boxer even though the Norma hs does not have “Re”. Although it was not listed in Norma catalogs until 1971 (not in 1969), it is quite possible that they produced a run for IAC earlier than this (but after 1967) and eventually added it to their own range of available cartridges. So we can’t discount Norma production.
The idea that Svenska Metallverken may have produced it is a “red herring” and appear to be due to the misconception that “Svenska Metallverken took over Norma in 1965”. They bought Norma shares but just ‘merged’ with Norma. Evidently this was a way of closing their own ammunition production and their company continued on with there other “metal goods”. Norma took over their production responsibilities by 1967. SM is doubtful.
So, if Curtis is right re the side labels of that the box shown above - it could confirm that FN did produce this , so if someone ( dArtagnan ?) can check the boxes we may have an answer ?
Here is a list of confirmed 7.5x55 boxes and headstamps found International Armament Corp. boxes (the manufacturer is not indicated in any of them):
“7.5 Swiss Soft Point” listed as early as March 1963.
Box 1: 180 Gr. Soft Point, G.F.L. 7,5 SVIZZ.
Box 2: 174 Gr. Expanding, Index 60-956, D 4 S 24 (pulled 7.5x54.5 GP90/23 cartridges)
Trademark used in ammunition since May 1967.
“7.5 Swiss Soft Point” listed as early as December 1967.
“7.5 Swiss 180 gr (Hunting Ammunition), Index 7750 and 7750” listed as late as 1972.
Not longer listed in the 1974 catalog.
Box 1: Soft Point, Index SB 6960, T 2 T SXST (pulled 7.5x55 match cartridges from 1967)
Box 2: 180 Grain Soft Point Semi Pointed, I.A.C. 7.5 SWISS (an empty sample of this box was sent to the trademarks office in August 1967)
Box 3: 180 Grain Soft Point Semi Pointed, Index SB 6960, I.A.C. 7.5 SWISS
Box 4: 180 Grain Soft Point Semi Pointed, Index 60-956R, I.A.C. 7.5 SWISS
Although the headstamp font found in I.A.C. 7.5 SWISS cartridges is different, the same 180 gr soft point Tri-Clad bullet and Boxer type .210 large rifle primer is also found in early factory loaded Norma 7.5x55 headstamped norma 7.5 SWISS. Also, note that the last three boxes show the same designation used in Norma catalogs and boxes (i.e., “Soft Point Semi Pointed”), minus “Boattail”. For these reasons I think it was manufactured by Norma.
My earliest reference for the Norma 7.5x55 is an ad by Norma-Precision, Lansing, NY that was published in September 1970 in several US magazines. Later, in May 1971 they published another ad showing the norma 7.5 SWISS headstamp. It is also mentioned in a June 1971 supplement to the Export Catalog where it says: “The 7.5 Swiss service cartridge is now manufactured by Norma and loaded with 180 grain soft point bullets” (sic).
Regarding the identification mentioned in the IAA guide, there is a 7,62 NATO IAC 1-65 headstamp that is a confirmed Svenska Metallverken AB manufacture for Interarmco. Maybe that is the “IAC” headstamp described as unknown(?)
Thanks Will. Yes I meant I have 2 boxes on file (actually 3 now, one is a 9mm made by Sellier Bellot). I was merely pointing out the manufacturers I know to exist that Interarm has used. I know they just imported so could be many manufacturers as Interarms bought whatever they got the best deals on.
Fede, I have the 7.62 headstamp made by Svenska as well. It was a military style headstamp.
Brad, can you confirm if the 7.5 ППУ 85 is a 7.5x55? I have pictures of the same headstamp but they are French 7.5x54, also from commercial Prvi Partizan boxes.
Also, can you verify if the first one -no headstamp with groove- is a 7.5x55 and not a 7.5x53.5?
I can add the following commercial headstamps to your great list:
T 7.5x55 (two headstamp variants found in SM and RUAG boxes)
MFT 7.5 x 55
S&B -Neroxin- 7.5x55 Swiss
No headstamp (eliminated Swiss headstamps showing machined grooves, made by Wichser)
No headstamp (various snap caps)
Curtis, can you post a picture of the Sellier & Bellot 9 mm box?
I don’t have the box, just the headstamp. I had the box but sold it.
Thanks Curtis, I was thinking about a box labeled “Sellier & Bellot”, but I assume it was an Interarms repack of Czechoslovakian post-war military 9 mm cartridges, correct?
That is Correct. Here is The T 7.5x55 HS you mentioned.
These two boxes: Buff one is GFL.
The White one has IAC and Norma Headstamps (not sure if original or not).
Fede, the first thing that I should mention was that image I posted above was only for the non-Swiss factory made 7.5x55/53 commercial. So I am aware of those two Thun hs as well as about 20 MATCH hs as follows:
Curtis - note those two “T 7.5X55” variations. Thanks for showing those boxes !
I didn’t know about that S&B hs - if anyone has an example, I would appreciate an image.
Yes, that milled hs was shown in my montage at top left was from Weber using ex-military 7.5x53.5 cases - black primer annulus. If you have images of ones produced by Wichser then an image would be great.
As for the 7.5 ППУ 85 I have that hs down for both 7.5x55 and 7.5x54 as stated by Otto Witt but I relied on his identification. Daan Schoeman has the following as 7.5x54 MAS only:
He doesn’t show one for the 7,5x55, so maybe Ot got them confused ?.
Thanks also for the great info on the I.A.C. 7.5 SWISS which is looking more like Norma although I haven’t ruled out FN just yet as there are several references for it (all repeating the same mistake ?)
Looks like the mention of manufacturers names on IAC 7.5x55 boxes was erroneous and is a dead end - although they are mentioned on some other caliber Interarms boxes.
Brad, thanks a lot for the additional information and pictures. I didn’t added any of the M+FA and T variants because in most cases it is hard to say if they can be considered “commercial” . For example, T T QVH is found in military style boxes stamped “Einschiessmunition”.
In any case, I can add the following ones:
D T STN, M+FA QVC, M+FA ST and M+FA SXQ
Pictures of M+FA SXC, M+FA STU and T T QVH:
Here is the Wichser “headstamp” found in gallery 7.5x55 cartridges:
WBD - I think the mention of the dated “7.5” rounds as including the 7.5 x 55 Swiss may be an error, although I cannot explain the one with green primer seal shown as “7.5 nny 85” on the picture of “known sporting … hs for the 7.5 x 55,” which has a military-style headstamp. Of course, at least on pistol ammo, you find dated, military style headstamps in commercial boxes. However, the 7.5 Swiss is not shown in any catalog I have up to 2003. The first catalog I have showing this caliber is from 2006, but it is not marked as “NEW” as are many other calibers, so the likely began production of it after 2003 but before 2006.
I realize that does not totally rule out the possibility of earlier productions for specific contracts, so this must count as simply an observation on my part. I learned long ago not to take much of anything for granted in the field of ammunition manufacture.
Fede, Thanks for these additions, please keep me in mind if images of the hs of any of those additions turn up.
FYI, I have added cartridges to my “European Sporting” database for hs of any of the following:
Military hs styles (ie with dates) if they are factory loaded sporting (eg. SP HP etc) - a lot of this in Austria and Germany (especially in the 1800’s). Some of the Swiss made 7.5x55 falls into this category. especially for Match ammunition which could be considered “Sporting” (ie It is competitive shooting (with no-one getting shot) carried out by both military and non-military organisations).
Commercial style hs (eg. without dates) even if they were likely to be used for military purposes (eg. SFM and Polte hs like those shown above - just for total inclusion/clarification. Some of those M+FA/M+FT hs above may have been used for military purposes but they use the civilian date codes so they fall into this category. Some of these hs may have been on cartridges that were used for both military and Sporting use.
Collectors need to avoid thinking that just because a cartridge has a date and/or has a FMJ bullet that it is military.
John, Prvi Partizan produced sporting loads of the 7.5x55 with both “nny 7.5x55” and the later “PPU 7.5x55” exist and are shown in the montage above. The “PPU” hs seems to have taken over from the “nny” type as the ‘standard’ hs from c2005 as best as I can tell and that fits in with what you have said. It may imply “nny” 7.5x55 production from c2004 and the switch to “PPU” shortly after. If someone can be more definite about this date (range ?) when the change was made then I would like to hear about it.
The unanswered question’s are whether the 7.5 ППУ 85 was produced in 7.5x55 and whether this (in either caliber) was ever a sporting load which I cannot confirm at this stage but suspect the answer is ‘no’ to both.
Thanks for your comments
As I see the headstamp ground/milled-out in Brad’s upper post (top row left), and have that with two variations of the Westley Richards L.T. capped bullet I will add the below "11 B 11 T " variation thinking it would also be a Wesley’s offering.
Brad, thanks for the clarification. I added pictures of the headstamps in my previous post (plus a few extras)