Unknown German Gauge Maker Symbols

I have rearranged this topic somewhat. Originally it grew out of another topic intended to illustrate German 9mm P08 and P38 chamber gauges made pre-1946 along with the information to understand the markings on these gauges.
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/german-9mm-g-n-chamber-gauges-pre-1946/40895

This Topic was intended as a tool to identify the maker’s marks on these 9mm gauges but it has grown into a seperate topic to identify all maker marks found on any type of cartridge gauges in any caliber.

Below are the symbols of other manufacturers I have documented I would greatly appreciate any identification or probable identification of these symbols, and if possible the source of the information or other documentation. When they are identified, if they are on 9mm, I will move them to the 9mm Topic referenced above. The symbols below are from a number of types of cartridge gauges, feel free to post other symbols from other calibers and other types of related gauges such such as case or bullet gauges like the one below or fuse gauges or any cartridge related gauge as long as it is German and pre-1946…
Bullet GB Winauges-GM

The Makers Marks are shown below. The numbers next to them are the dates of gauges that appear with this mark.

ABECO
ABECO-logo
A. Benecke & Co., Luckenwalde [ref 3 & 1-25]

B Winged
Winged B-logo

CEB
DB-logo

D circled M
D circle M-logo

DWM
DWM-logo
Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken Aktiengesellschaft, Karlsruhe, Baden [ref: Wikipedia Deutsche_Waffen-_und_Munitionsfabriken, ref 4]

ERMA
image
Erfurter Maschinen- und Werkzeugfabrik GmbH* was formed in 1922 in Erfurt), Thuringia [ref:Wikipedia. Erma_Werke, ref 4 ]

ESG circled
Circle ESG-1-logo

Feinprüf
image
Feinprüf-Feinmess-und Prüfgeräte GmbH, Göttingen [ref 1-13, ref 4]

FGB triangle
TriangleFGB-logo- Triangle-unk-logo-find good image

FW
image
Fritz Werner Aktiengesellschaft, Berlin W35 [ref 1-4, ref 4]

GM
GM-1-logo

gmm
image
Eckardt & Lohkamp, Maschinen- und Werkzeuge, Berlin W 35, Lützowatr.89-90. [[ref 1-2 & 6, German Code list gaa-gzz july 1941]

GR
image
Probably G.Rauchfuß" → Georg Rauchfuß [ref 3]

Hammer & Pick
image
Eckhardt & Lohkamp Maschinen und Werkzeuge, Berlin W35 [ref 1-3]

HHK
image
Heinrich H. Klüssendorf, Werkzeuge, Brlin, Spandau [ref 4]

Horns???
Horns-logo

HR circled
HR-logo

HuK
image Hahn und Kolb, Stuttgart [ref 1-13 ]

HWM
image
Hommelwerke GmbH, Mannheim-Käfertal. [ref 4]

JER
JER-logo
“J. E. Reinecker AG” Chemnitz (the city I come from). Reinecker was once a very large and famous factory for gear cutting machines, normal tool machines and tools. The factory (and major parts of the city) was nearly completely destroyed on 5th march 1945 by american / canadian / british bombers in two attacks (day & night). Surviving machines of the factory went to Russia after end of the war as reparations. [ref 2]

K circle
Circle K-logo

L&R
L&R-logo

Maho
Maho-logo “Mayr und Hoermann” or “MAHO Maschinenfabrik Pfronten”. Later they became “Deckel & Maho” then “Deckel Maho Gildemeister” (DMG) and now they are DMG-Mori and produce CNC milling machines. [ref 2 & 3]

MWN triangle or MWN Triangle circle
MWN-logo MWN-1-logo

P diamond
Diamond P-logo

Polte Wheel
image
Polte Armaturen und Naschinen Fabrik, Magdeburg [ref 1-5, ref 4]

R&Co
image
This is code appears on a German style gauge with no side markings. It has been described as a WWI German gauge.

R circle-N square
RN-logo

RWCo
RCoW-logo
Richard Weber & Co., Berlin. [ref 1-25 & 3] This is perhaps a later version of the R&Co logo above [ref 1-25 & 3].

S in Triangle
image
Simpson & Co. Shul [ref 4]

SL
image

SR
SR-logo

STG
image

WaD
WAD oval-1-logo WAD oval-logo

W&G
W&G-logo

ZW
ZW-logo

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References:
1.Unknown German Gauge Maker Symbols
2. http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/102424-Gauges-of-Luftwaffe-ammunition-fuzes
3. Wolfgang Jordan, Small Tool Museum, Trademark Directory: Taken from the book ‘Die Deutsche Werkzeugindustrie’ [ DWI ] (1942)
4. An Encyclopedia of German Tradenames and Treademarks, W Darrin Weaver [see ref 1-19 below]

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Other Logos, non-German or post-WWII

Ax Head-French
image
This gauge is definately post-WWII French and s an ax head. image
The manufacturer is almost certainly MAS (Manufacture Nationale d`Armes de St-Etienne). [ref1-12. 14 & 16]

W and/or T G-DDR/East German - Post WWII
image
This one was made by the VEB Ernst Thälmann Werke in Suhl, post war. MdI, was a DDR Department, the Ministerium des Inneren (ministry of internal affairs). [1-2 & 10]

Please feel free to list other gauge symbols. If you also know the maker, include that along with the caliber and I will list them also!

Cheers,
Lew

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This one was made by the VEB Ernst Thälmann Werke in Suhl, post war.

image

When loooking for gmm, I stumbled over the solution for Double Hammer, which is Hammer and Pick, the traditional symbol for mining and miners in Germany. Later gmm was used.

Eckardt-Lohkamp

FW is in my view Fritz Werner AG, but I have no documenation for this.

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You are right about Fritz Werner.
Here is the FW logo on a Fritz Werner machine manual.

Screenshot_20200927-200844_Chrome

A Fritz Werner catalog from 1929:

Screenshot_20200927-201330_eBay

The wheel is Polte.

MdI = Ministerium des Inneren (ministry of internal affairs) ?

Firstly, Hans can take the question mark away from “MdI,” as his identification of the initials are absolutely correct. It was a DDR Department, but it could exist still today in Germany, as most countries have an Ministry of the Interior.

As Peelen hinted at, “gmm” is Eckardt & Lohkamp, Maschinen- und Werkzeuge, Berlin W 35, Lützowatr.89-90.

John Moss

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Yes, Hans correctly identified the meaning of MdI, while the West German abbreviation is BMI (Bundesministerium des Innern). An eagle with BMI can for example be found on federal police weapons, because it is legally equivalent to the CIP symbols of German civilian proof houses.

Great work, that identifies half of the symbols and only leaves the other half and one to confirm.

I do appreciate you providing the letterheads and catalogs and such to provide solid confirmation!

Many Thanks!

Lew

I forgot to add some evidence on Thälmann, here it goes. Note the TW logo on the statue base.

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A possible candidate for this marking could be WMH Herion GmbH. But no definitive proof yet.

image

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Hi Lew,

I found this symbol on gauges, coming from France.
image grafik
If you turn you symbol 90° counterclockwise, my symbol fits to your symbol.
It looks like the working end of a fire-axe or something like that. Engineers sometimes also use such tools.
It is found on 7,5 MAS-Gauges, 30-06-Gauges, .30 Carbine-Gauges and 5,6 LR-Gauges which were used in France by officials like the military and are part of my collection.
But I am not sure, if this symbol represents a manufacturer, because of the presence on the different calibers.

regards

Rainer

Great input! I suspect that it is a manufacturer’s symbol. I know that US gauge manufacturers make gauges in a broad range of calibers. During WWII (and just prior) ERMA made 9mm Gauges, but I also have a number of ERMA gauges in 7.9x57 for the MG 08 & 08/15 for the Luftwaffe. I suspect they also made other caliber gauges.

Thanks!

Lew

JPeelen identified HuK:
Hahn und Kolb, located in Stuttgart. For many years they even had a big shop in downtown Stuttgart where they sold tools and items like calipers

Forensic identified Feinprüf
Here a little bit more info on Feinprüf. The Name during wartime was Feinprüf-Feinmess-und Prüfgeräte GmbH and was mainly situated at Göttingen (and was founded 1936 as daughter company of Carl Mahr Esslingen (Mahr itself was founded 1861 at Esslingen by Carl Mahr) ,
Under the following link a brief History of the buildings at Göttingen, stating that they mainly made Gauges and Toolings for the Army, and where specialized on Toolings/Gauges for Bullets (and field/Barrelgauges). http://www.zwangsarbeit-in-goettingen.de/texte/feinpruef.htm

French armory at Chatellerault made boarding axes. I wonder if this axe head marking can be attributed to them.

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Vlim,

Great work!

Can any of the French Forum members help out with the Ax Head symbol. Images of the symbol on an advertisement or a letter head or whatever would be a great help.

Still need some ideas or help on the HHK, STG, SLGR, GR and R&C markings and some documentation on the HWM , ideally some proof that it is WMH Herion GmbH.

I am amazed at the progress on this.

I have seen books of company symbols and trademarks of US companies. Is there something similar for German companies??? Does anyone have one and be willing to check it.

Cheers,
Lew

It makes no sense at all to me in context of a WWII Item, but the “GR” (intertwined) symbol is virtually identical to the monogram of the G. Roth A.-G. well known on Roth headstamps. My “GR” 9 mm gauge is P-38-marked, and yet by c.1930 the Mandl concern had absorbed the G. Roth A.-G. ammunition factory.

Was there any branch of the G. Roth company still existing under the Roth name in the early 1940s?

I assume the intertwined “GR” monogram from Roth was a registered trademark, in which case it would seem odd that it was used by someone else, even after eight to ten years had passed.

John Moss

Hi guys,

Vlim´s input regarding the Chatellerault Armory pushed me, to search my books, regarding the “axe”-logo and I found this logo in the book “Proud Promise, French Autoloading Rifles 1898-1979”, written by Jean Huon.
This book deals also with the MAS1949 rifle. In chapter 9, Overhaul, Repair and Adjustment, serveral gauges are shown with this special logo.
Gauges
Due to the fact, that this rifle was manufactured by MAS (Manufacture Nationale d`Armes de St-Etienne) there is a chance, that this logo represents MAS, if the theory is correct, that it is a manufacturer-logo.
But I am not absolutely convinced from the manufacturer-theory, because there are gauges in my collection, which have the US-appearance in design and inscription, with the additional “axe”-logo. Possibly this gauges have been submitted by the USA or procured in the USA.



The upper one has an additional “MAS” and the “axe”-logo as part of the inscription, which could possibly indicate, that the “axe” is MAS-related.
A second theory could be, that the “axe” is an indication, that it is government-property.
All the gauges in my collection, which show the “axe”-logo, are post-WW2.

regards
Rainer

There is an online german trademark register, but you have to search on key words. It would be nice to be able to browse the actual logos.

This is the book I was remembering. I had seen it, but don’t have a copy! I thought I had a copy but one of the boxes from my hobby room in Texas was stolen when we moved to Atlanta. Probably because the box said “wine, books, computer”. It disappeared and I will bet it wasn’t because it said books. I suspect the book was in that box. Anyway, I just ordered it again and it will help. In fact two of the symbols are on the cover of the book.
image image

Here is the bookI I will it will help on other maker symbols.

Cheers,
Lew

image

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Lew - see if it shows the “GR” intertwined trademark in a later context than G.Roth. Or, perhaps I should say in a German context, rather than Austrian. (I know you don’t have the book yet - referring to when it arrives).

John