Unknown (to me) 7.62x54r headstamp (Soviet?)


#1

I was sorting through a case of Finnish repacked Soviet ammo today and came across this. Out of 300 rounds all but 4 are factory 17. One is factory 60, and three are factory 58 as shown in the picture. Dates ranged from 1936 to 1939 and all was brass cased with tombac plated bullets. I had not previously seen a reference to factory 58, but Hendere tells me that it’s shown in Ian Hogg’s “The Cartridge Guide” and listed as Soviet. Can anyone shed any more light on factory 58? Especially the location and years of operation. TIA


#2

Arsenal 58 was at Voroshilougrad, in Russia, and operated only during the 1930s. I do not know the actual name of the factory itself, if it had one other than its Soviet Numerical Code.

Reference: "Munitions Militaires Russes pour Armes L


#3

Thank you very much for the fast and thorough response!


#4

Good find! I don’t think i have ever seen a 58. Those Finnish re-packs are a good source for odd headstamps. I’ve found 2 Tokarev headstamps in Finnish re-packs that I’ve only ever seen in them. Mixed ammo is always worth a detailed look.


#5

I just realized I may have been unclear about the dates. The entire case ranged to 1939, but the three 58 cartridges were all dated 1936.

Does anyone know a source for Munitions Militaires Russes pour Armes L


#6

Gyrojet, one of “The Dutch”, is bringing a few copies to the St. Louis show, but I’m guessing that all of those will quickly find homes.


#7

Thanks for the info.

I did some digging and Vorshilovgrad is actually in Ukraine and is a former name for Lugansk. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voroshilovgrad

Lugansk is plant #60 which moved to Frunze (Bishkek) in 1941/2. I guess there were two plants there in the '30s and #58 was just shut down, or the equipment was moved to Frunze along with the other plant.

This would be a lot easier if the Soviets hadn’t changed the names of cities so much.


#8

7.62, I found my copy through a French seller on ebay; he had it to me within 3 days, and the price wasn’t bad at all: cgi.ebay.com/MUNITIONS-MILITAIRE … 240%3A1318


#9

7.62x54R - great information about Lugansk. Thank you! My only Atlas is a very small one that shows only the most major cities in Europe. Wish I have kept my original one I got in High School - huge - but still showing The Belgian Congo, Ceylon, the U.S.S.R., Rhodesia, etc., etc. I tossed it because it was “obsolete.” Actually, I should have thought of the word “obsolescent,” which was truer. Still plenty useful even today. Dumb of me.

There is just one question. The Soviet code for the Lugansk Cartridge Work was “270,” not 60. All of the sources I have show that Arsenal 60 was primarily used by Bishkek Ammunition Factory, formerly Frunze Ammunition Factory, in Krgyzstan. Regenstreif indicates there was utilization of the code, if I am reading the French right, at Lugansk as well, but doesn’t say under what circumstance. There is no question that the primary code used by Lugansk, at least after WWII (1946 on), was “270” and in fact, they were still using it as late as 2006 and maybe today. It is possible I guess that the “60” code was used by them during WWII. I have a 7.62 x 25 Tokarev headstamped “6 42” and for years, that was an unknown code, I believe.


#10

To my knowledge plant No 58 is the “Lead Casting Plant in Moscow” - The former “Fetter & Ginkel Lead Casting Plant”. In the mid 1930s it was renamed to plant No 5 and then to No 58. It mainly produced cal 12 and cal 4 cases/cartridges.
The 7.62x54R from “58” is also known with a head stamp from 1937.


#11

John, I simply put Voroshilovgrad in Google Maps and it pointed to Lugansk. Then I searched on it in Wikipedia and it redirected me to Lugansk where I found the information on the name change. What’s an atlas? ;-)

The factory at Lugansk was given #60 in 1928 and then was moved to Frunze in 1941/42. A “new” factory was established as #270 at Lugansk in the 1942-1944 era. At the time this #58 cartridge was made Lugansk was #60.

I got the information from here (sort of, somehow I ended up with a Russian version in Word and translated it): 7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID01.htm

EOD, you just have to throw a wrench in things. ;-) I’ll try to dig into that.


#12

7.62x54r, I just answered your question. :)


#13

[quote=“EOD”]To my knowledge plant No 58 is the “Lead Casting Plant in Moscow” - The former “Fetter & Ginkel Lead Casting Plant”. In the mid 1930s it was renamed to plant No 5 and then to No 58. It mainly produced cal 12 and cal 4 cases/cartridges.
The 7.62x54R from “58” is also known with a head stamp from 1937.[/quote]
It’s right. By the way the full name was “Plant # 58 imeni Voroshilova” (named after Voroshilov). Probably they missed Voroshilov Plant #58 in Moscow and Plant in Voroshilovgrad (Sity of Voroshilov).
Plant # 58 produced only 7.62x54R cartridge CASES that time.


#14

O.K. I am really confused. I will ask some direct questions.

Do the numbers 58 or 60 have anything at all to do with the factory that became the Lugansk Mechanical Works using code 270 from 1946 on?

Is Philippe’s book wrong about the identification of the factory 58?

Did Lugansk, using the code 270, make any caliber of ammunition with that code (270) on the headstamp before 1946 - that is the earliest date which I have found for 270 in the ammunition I collect - in this case 7.62 x 25mm?

Does anyone have any brief history of Lugansk Cartridge Works including the names it had over the years before becoming the Lugansk Mechanical Plant and then the Lugansk Ammunition Works? The factory itself goes back to the 18th century.

I need to be sure that what I am writing in a book on the Makarov pistols and ammunition is correct. I have already done the part on Lugansk under the USSR, but it appears now that some of it iw very incomplete, even though it is only intended to be a capsule history, and that some is very wrong.

Help!


#15

linnet, thanks for the confirmation and further information. If you don’t mind, would post “imeni” in Cyrillic? I tried to transliterate it and then translate it but didn’t have any luck. TIA

John, I’m sure there are others with more knowledge and details than me, but I’ll make a stab at it. Based on EOD and linnet’s statements I’d say #58 has nothing to do with Lugansk. #60 was the factory at Lugansk until it moved in 1941/42 so no, it doesn’t have anything to do with it from 1946 forward.

Again, based on EOD and linnet, I would say the French book is wrong. It also makes sense that there wouldn’t have been a second shortlived plant at Lugansk either. However, I full realize the pitfalls of trying to make sense of Soviet directives.

The new plant #270 at Lugansk went into operation sometime between 1942 and 1944 so I would say that there “should” be #270 headstamped cartridges dated prior to 1946.

Sorry, I don’t have much more than the above I got from the link I posted earlier.


#16

I can provide imformation from Boris Davydov article in Weapon’s World magazine #10-11, 2005

Do the numbers 58 or 60 have anything at all to do with the factory that became the Lugansk Mechanical Works using code 170 from 1946 on?

I never met code 170. Plant in Lugansk/Voroshilovgrad used 60 and 270 ones. It was Voroshilovgrad within 1935-1958 and 1970-1990.

Is Philippe’s book wrong about the identification of the factory 58?

I guess so. Plant # 58 was in Moscow.

Did Lugansk, using the code 270, make any caliber of ammunition with that code (270) on the headstamp before 1946 - that is the earliest date which I have found for 270 in the ammunition I collect - in this case 7.62 x 25mm?

Plant # 270 in Voroshilovgrad made 39 M 7,62x25 mm cartriges in 1944 (first year of production after city’s liberation) and 112 M in 1945.

Does anyone have any brief history of Lugansk Cartridge Works including the names it had over the years before becoming the Lugansk Mechanical Plant and then the Lugansk Ammunition Works? The factory itself goes back to the 18th century.

It was old cannon factory in Lugansk closed in 1887. They decided to create new Lugansk cartridge plant on this site in 1895. Named Plant # 60 in 1927. They evacuated stuff from Voroshilovgrad to 6 different plants. Name # 60 got new plant in Frunze (Bishkek now). They restarted cartrige plant on old site in liberated Voroshilovgrad in 1944 and plant got # 270.

linnet, thanks for the confirmation and further information. If you don’t mind, would post “imeni” in Cyrillic? I tried to transliterate it and then translate it but didn’t have any luck. TIA

imeni = имени


#17

I’ll do it since the guy in Moscow is probably asleep (time difference).
Завод 58 имени Ворошилова
If I am wrong, Alex will correct me.
Sorry, he is not asleep, my mistake.


#18

I can’t say exactly when 270 first produced the 7.62x25 cartridge, but the first documented headstamp from them, on an unfinished case, is 270 * 45 IV.


#19

[quote=“sksvlad”]I’ll do it since the guy in Moscow is probably asleep (time difference).
Завод 58 имени Ворошилова
If I am wrong, Alex will correct me.
Sorry, he is not asleep, my mistake.[/quote]

Завод № 58 имени Ворошилова


#20

Since July 1944. See my post above.