Unkown 120MM APFSDS Projectile


#1

Looking for information and possible photos of the complete round if possible. I was told that this is the 120 MM penetrater used by a British Challenger 1 tank in Dessert Storm. It is also from a 2 piece separate projectile / case round. I have searched like crazy but can’t seem to find a matching photo of the complete round or even the proper designation. Here are a few pics. Thanks for your help.

I was also told it is tunsten and not DU. It measures 20 inches long and has 6 fins.


#2

This one looks much like it and should be the L23A1 with tungsten alloy core:

And since you like APFSDS-T so much, here some recent Russian 125mm designs:


#3

AWESOME! That drawing does look allot like it. At least now I can do more research on the L23A1 to confirm things. I am very gratefull for your help EOD. Iam really into large caliber APFSDS rounds and enjoyed seeing the Russian diagrams. I really like the last projectile in the drawing. The Russian’s use some interesting Sabot designs around thier subprojectiles. Again, thanks so much.


#4

Did you check the IRAQ ORDNANCE CD ?


#5

Or better ORDATA itself:
maic.jmu.edu/ordata/search.asp?SearchMode=0


#6

It is great that I now have a good guess on the designation. I will check out ORDDATA too asap. I attempted to check my copy of IRAQ ORDNANCE CD, which is one of the best refference guids I have seen, but for some reason my computer had a glitch and had trouble opening the program. I have opened it many times in the past but am not having trouble. My computer is old and is always doing this stuff. I am going to try taking the disk to a freinds to use his computer to see if I can hunt down quality information on the round on your disk.


#7

Ok, here is something driving me crazzy with this subprojectile. How does the tracer work if thier is a big screw tightened tight in the back? You can see this in one of my photos as well as in the line diagram. Also, if Denny’s is opened 24/7, why do they have locks on the doors?


#8

The tracer is made as a separate assembly in many larger and some small caliber ammo. The entire tracer unit screws into the tail piece.


#9

I see that, but were does the light or burning tracer come threw in flight if the tail end is effectivily “Capped”, or “Plugged”?


#10

Here is a picture that better shows the design of the back end of the subprojectile that contains the tracer cavity and element.


#11

UNLESS THAT PLUG IS COMBUSTIBLE OR COMSUMABLE THAT ISN’T A TRACER. SOMETIMES TRACERS ARE COVERED BY A THIN METAL LAWYER WHICH BURNS OFF BUT THIS LOOK EITHER TO BE A SHIPPING PLUG TO PROTECT THE THREADS OR A TEST PROJ. OF SOME TYPE. HERE ARE A COUPLE OF THE OLD CHIEFTAN PROJECTILES.

APFSDS L23A1 AND PROOF


#12

Sweet! It sure looks a lot like the Chieftain on the left. They only thing is they guy said it was from his Challenger 1 tank. Are they both 120MM? I am also assuming the green fins may just be a color variation. I am gratefull for those photos for my refference collection.


#13

The green is teflon. Yes both are 120mm guns.


#14

Sweet! So you can cook an egg on it also. I wonder if the teflon is for aerodynamic purposes or corrosion protection or other?


#15

The thinking at the time was that the teflon would help the sabot to come off better. The hardest part of DS design is getting rid of the sabot after the package leaves the barrel. That is why DS small arms flechettes have not worked so well. Designing a sabot which would hold onto the flechette well enought for handling,loading and firing but get lost asap after leaving the barrel to avoid affecting accuracy is a MAJOR task. Thousands of experiments were done to develope such a sabot and NONE worked at acceptable parameters. The larger the caliber the easier it is to get rid of the sabot once fired BUT it has to fall off without degrading the trajectory of the projectile. Projectiles without tails work better with sabots of most designs. The Teflon wasn’t necessary but there was a “coat everything with Teflon” push for quite some time. You will find US small arms cartridges entirely coated with Teflon which were used in Arctic tests to keep the ammo from sticking in the chamber. teflon is not a rust preventative. It is quite porous.

Take a look at the complecated design of the sabot today on you DS rounds. These designs are the results of thousands of design experiments mostly dealing with shedding the sabot once it hits the air stream. You don’t see any Teflon on the TERMINATOR - that is GOLD. OH YES!


#16

Talk about great information! I could spend years searching the net to learn that history. Thanks alot, again, for sharing your wealth of design and historical information. That very interesting.


#17

I’ll put up couple of sabot tests later to show you what is involved. ENJOY !


#18

Awesome! I am FIRED-UP!


#19

Correct, this projectile has no tracer (and there is no such one, only the older APDS type had a tracer).
The screw in the base is the “fin cover retaining screw”.


#20

Nice! You guys rule! It was driving me crazzzzzyyy! That makes allot of sense. So the fin cover is also consumed or ejected from the barrel? Thanks. It is like solving a mystery :-)