Unusual 7.62x39 "711 74"


#1

May someone provide info/insight to the nature of the 2nd from the left round? The ogive seems like a tracer, right? The headstamp is “711 74”.
image


#2

It does have the “fat” tracer ogive. Is it black or dark green? If black, it could be a weapons proof round.


#3

It is dark blue, almost black.


#4

Is it drilled?


#5

It does appear to be a tracer projectile, but a close look at the case mouth and case mouth seal tells me that the projectile has been pulled and reseated. The color and application appears to be an attempt to replicate a High Pressure Test cartridge marking, but is too short and not uniform enough. Also, I have not ever seen a HPT with a case mouth seal, as these were never to be used in the field…

What is this cartridge represented as? My first take is that it is a “fake” of some sort…

AKMS


#6

Yes, this cartridge was deactivated by drilling.


#7

black/green tip designates type US reduced velocity ball for suppressed weapons, no?


#8

True!

Hans


#9

Yes, but I think the original question is about the round with the long, dark blue tip.


#10

oops, sorry!


#11

I have only two suppositions:

  • It is fake
  • It is hand made Dummy round for teaching staff what colours on the bullet means. Existed so-called “commander’s sets” of Dummy rounds for teaching soldiers. Usualy they where factory made. But hand made sets also known. At least, lost specimen from “commander’s set” could be replaced by hand made one. The quality and accuracy of such hand made Dummies was not high.

#12

One more detail about the 2nd from the left round, it has significantly more gun powder than a usual normal load.


#13

What does the powder look like? A real Soviet high pressure test cartridge contains a powder unlike that used in ball, tracer, API and I-T loads. Similar volume, but much different in color and appearance. It actually looks like the powder used in blank cartridges…

AKMS


#14

This is the back of the projectile. Looks like a tracer?
image


#15

Yes, a tracer. Can you show the powder?


#16

The powder looked like a regular “little stick” kind, sorry, was tossed.


#17

Can you make more exact this data “significantly more gun powder than a usual normal load”? +20%? +40%? +50 %? Or in grams/grains?


#18

Sorry, the powder was tossed, no way to estimate.


#19

There really is no room for much “extra” powder in the 7.62x39mm when the T-45 tracer projectile is in place. The powder charge comes right up to the bottom of the projectile. I have seen a few pulled T-45 projectiles where the powder grains were actually stuck in the base of the projectile. The only way to get extra in the case would be to make a “compressed” charge… typically a high pressure cartridge uses a different powder to get the desired pressure, not a compressed charge of standard powder…

AKMS


#20

Cartridge with Black bullet is High Pressure loading. But this is very unusual loading. There was no (oficially) High Pressure or Ballistic Standard loadings with tracer bullet. And one more note, serial HP and BS loadings doesn’t have red varnish around case neck and around primer.
Am I right, this specimen has come recently from Russia? If yes, I suspect it may be repainting of not proper cartridge made by somebody for commercial purpose.