Unusual Old Wildcat Cartridges


I don’t know a whole lot about these two wildcats except what the original owner told me. He lived in New Mexico and did a lot of experimenting with unusual ideas before his eyesight began to fail and he had to dispose of his collection.

On the right is a cartridge that he called the .300 Giraffe. He claimed that he was able to get the entire powder charge to burn in the case resulting in a nearly silent cartridge.

On the left is one that he called the Versa-Wildcat. By trimming the case back to the appropriate length you could make a wildcat in any one of 5 different calibers.

Both of these are outside of my collecting interest and I will consider trades or cash sale if anyone is interested.




What are the five calibers at the left one?

Thank you,



Ray, it looks like someone had a lot of time on their hands. I thought I saw one like the the left one on some post recently, but I don’t remember when or where. Getting old I guess. Bill


Mihaly & Bill

Tis time to fess up. They are joke cartridges. Just trying to lighten up the Forum a little. And trying to get some of the big kids to bite, but they are getting too smart for me, I guess.



You wern’t thinking of these, were you?

The middle one is a Herters design, the 247 Herter Ram Mag

On the left is the 228 Ackley DS Mag, on the right is the 224 Hansell

The above are NOT joke cartridges

Edit to correct the Ackley ID


In my copy of George Herters Professional Loading and reloading data 4th ed 1976 there are four "double neck " cartridges shown complete with loading data.

                247 Herter Missle Magnum
                247  Herter Ram magnum
                270 Herter  Ram Magnum
                300  Herter Ram Magnum



What was the purported benefit of the 'double shoulder" rounds?



Per the book Glenn has shown, “This double shoulder creates a turbulence in the shoulder of the cartridge case that concentrates the force of the powder gases on the rear of the bullet for a longer period of time and gives more velocity than the same powder charge with the same bullet, shot in the same rifle with a conventional shoulder.”

Ray’s Versa-Wildcat must have turbulence like a tornado and launch a bullet like Warp speed with its hair on fire…



Uh, make that RICK’S, now.


Yes, those two unusual cartridges will be winging their way to AR on the first direct flight from Linden to Hardy. I’m sure he will be working up some good loads. So, direct any future questions and/or comments to the Slickster. I’m outa here.



The 224 Hansell that Tailgunner shows looks to be an M82 blank with the extension cut back a bit. Brass would be easy to make at least.



Ref the Hansell
The headstamp is LC 69, case length is 2.400, base to shoulder(s) is 1.568 & 2.052, base to neck(s) is 1.740 & 2.134

Ref the Herters
Was there any Herters product that wasn’t the greatest thing since the wheel?
IIRC their sales pitch was so over the top, it would have make Billy Mayes blush


“What was the purported benefit of the 'double shoulder” rounds?"

Any and all double shoulder, venturified shoulder, radiused shoulder, concave shoulder, convex shoulder, or whatever you want to call them, should be classified as joke cartridges. That’s what they are in reality. None of them have EVER been proven to improve ballistics or accuracy. But, each generation of shooters has to learn their own history and so they will always be with us.




Taigunner - what is the short cartridge in your picture, with the red-platic tipped bullet?

Wouldn’t the Herter’s cartridges be more properly referred to as “Proprietyary Cartridges?” I guess that would hinge on whether or not Herter’s ever supplied brass for them.

John Moss


I’m not near the collection at present, so I can’t be 100% positive, but the IIRC it’s a 22 Flea (32acp necked to 22)


Tailgunner’s .224 Hansell inspired me to try my hand at this double neck wildcattin’ thing. With a case length of 2.322" it comes in at a little shorter than the Hansell version, (optimized to work with the Sierra 69 gr. #1380). Having the “Think Metric” theme in mind, I’m gonna call this one the “5.56x59mm DN Elfin’ Magic Super”. (Making up the name is at least half the fun.)

As the parent cartridge’s original loading didn’t seem suited for reasonable pressures, I don’t think I’ll try the “Mexican Match” technique.

All I need now is a reamer grinder with a sense of humor and a few hundred bucks and I’ll be ready on the range with the latest sensation…I just hope it does something better than my .22-250’s.

On a serious note, it is an interesting use of the M82 but the fabrication of the case was not as simple as I thought it might be as the second neck was quite thick walled. A .204" dia. program would’ve reduced the labor! Would love to hear of actual use and performance, etc. of the Hansell cartridge if Tailgunner or anyone else has any information.



Too. Much. Free. Time.



[Cue the Kung Fu theme music] There is no such thing as “free time”. Time is costly and we are given only that which is granted us. There is wasted time, and that is time we do not spend learning and expanding our understanding of the things around us.



Mr Hansell is still using his cartridge for varmint hunting, and still seems quite happy with it.
A couple years ago he found that photo on another forum, and contacted me about it. IOW his computer had crashed and he lost his contact information. The guy he was looking for (Ed Reynolds) is the same guy I’d gotten it from. Ed may have some additional information for you.



Wildcats R serious and you’all are just making fun of them.

Oh wait. It were I who started this thread.

Never mind.