Unusual Winchester Red "W" 9mm Luger Box


#1

The Red “W” box replaced the Red & Yellow Winchester box in 9mm Luger sometime after March 1959 (date of my last recorded Red & Yellow box). Fede in a previous Forum post http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15917&p=113835#p113835 indicated that the Red “W” box was introduced about September of 1960 (I assumes this is for all pistol calibers) which fits in with the date of my last Red & Yellow box. But my earliest Red “W” box was dated 1966 which leaves a big gap! All the Red “W” boxes I had documented had the Child Warning (introduced in 1962) as illustrated below.

I recently acquired an unusual Winchester Red W box without the Child Warning (shown below) date coded Dec 1961. Other than the lack of the Child Warning, it is identical with all the other Red “W” boxes I have except for the slightly larger letters used in “CENTER FIRE CARTRIDGES” on the front label. This box couldn’t have been in use for more than about two years and perhaps less if they continued to use the Red & Yellow boxes after Sep 60 to get rid of them before going to the Red “W”.

This box was also interesting because the rounds have WRA 9m/m LUGER headstamps by Western (see my top post on http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16159&start=0 for a photo) instead of the W-W headstamp in all my other Red “W” boxes.

Has anyone else seen one of these boxes???

Has anyone seen a Red & Yellow or a Red W 9mmP box with the Year Code (first LETTER in the date code stamped inside the box end) that is P through W??? This could help us pin down when the W-W code was introduced on the 9mm Luger cartridge.

Cheers,
Lew


#2

Lew - the only thing I can relate regarding the introduction of the W-W headstamp on 9 mm Luger caliber, is that the second specimen of 9 mm with a W-W headstamp that I ever acquired shows an acquisition date of 1972. I did not date the first one. I was only dating things, then, that I considered special. The specimen in question is marked “experimental” in my notes.

I have five of the yellow boxes with Red W crosed by the Winchester banner. All have the half-circle advisory “Warning! Keep out of Reach of Children” on the left end of the top label. All boxes are from the “Winchestern-Western Division OLIN” designation era.

In no particular order, the lot numbers are:

A20CH02 (48 stamped above it): 115 Gr FMC

23EL61 (91 stamped above it, last digit of lot faint and questionable): 100
grain Power Point

41XF22 (60 stamped above it): 115 grain FMC

E4KD6 (18 stamped above it; lot number as shown is followed by a plain black
square about half the height of the number “6” and centered on it):
100 Grain JHP

58EH3 (9Number 48 above it; possibly an entry after it but it is such a tiny part
as to be indiscernable. It may not even be part of the lot number, although
it is spaced the same from the last digit as that digit is from the one
it. Box for 115 FMC but overstamped, on the bottom of the box only,
DUMMY. Cartridge is a brown case (yes, Brown, not black although it may
have been intended to be black), FMJ RN, no case cannelure, hole in center
of the primer cup, which is the same color as the case.

Doubt any of this helps. Letters in front of the lot number, other than “A” seem to be in the minority on these boxes.

I don’t, regretably, have a box with no “Children” advisory on it. It is something so plain and up front that in my constant look for tiny differences in boxes, I could have easily over-looked. I often can’t see the tree for the forest.


#3

Thanks John, The 18 E4KD6 is interesting. It should date from early 1975. but the White box with the Yellow “X” was reportedly introduced in 1974 but my earliest Yellow “X” box is dated Jan 1976. That pretty well narrows down when these boxes actually changed. Based on history I believe Winchester used up their old boxes before going to the new box styles.

Cheers,
Lew