Ups


#1

A freind of mine lives in CA east of San Diego. He went to mail a box with the ORM-D label on it and they told him they would no longer ship ammo. He was told it had to go beteen dealers. Is this something that is going nation wide or just something that is being done in CA.
Carolyn


#2

Was it “mail”, or sending a package via UPS? And if UPS, was it a UPS Store or UPS Hub? You can’t send ammo via the USPS, and most UPS Stores will not take ammo. However, UPS Hubs take ammo and ammo does not have to go via an FFL. Unfortunately, there are lots of UPS employees who seem to know nothing about their own company policies.


#3

Carolyn

As Jon said, if he went to a UPS hub he should have had no problems. But, stories of being turned away from both UPS and FedEx hubs are becoming all too frequent. I agree that many clerks do not know their own rules and regulations but there are also times when the political leaning of both clerks and management are playing a big role. When that happens, the best advice I can give is to go to another hub. Both UPS and FedEx are private businesses and they literally make their own rules. Argueing with them is like wrestling a pig.

Ray


#4

My UPS hub is very accustomed (especially these days) to receiving and shipping lots of firearms and ammo, and they seem to know exactly what they can & cannot ship. UPS Stores, like those in Staples office-supply store locations will often reject ammo for whatever reason. FedEX should be the same.


#5

Carolyn…

If this was at a UPS hub…ask your friend to go back with the package and have the clerk call UPS Hazmat Dept…the folks there know all the rules and will set the clerk straight…I’ve done it and it works…

Randy


#6

It was a UPS hub and he has always shipped from there before with no problem.
Carolyn


#7

Hmmmm…interesting. I believe they are wrong. He might want to go back and try again. If told no, I would keep asking for a supervisor until I got the right answer.


#8

Was this the California guy Caroyln?
I believe I just spoke to the same person who was probably where Carolyn had this problem with. He’s a Gunbroker seller who sells individual cartridges from California, and he ran into a UPS location that actually enforces the newer California law about selling cartridges only to someone in person (I think). This should be just a California problem, and the rule is routinely ignored by shippers of ammo from California who just use the mail, or label the package vaguely at UPS or FedEX. I shipped a package with ammo today from Brewer, Maine and they knew it was ammo and I had no problem. This same seller I spoke to was under the impression that armor piercing ammo was now all illegal… nationwide, so there are some interpretation issues as well. I told him it was just a California thing as far as pistol ammo.


#9

yes that is the same guy


#10

I just sent a 25 Lb. shipment of ammunition from our South San Francisco UPS Hub on January 4th, and had no problem either with the contents or the ORM-D stickers I used on the box. The only question they ask is if there is anything .50 or over (it should be “over .50” but I don’t mention that because I don’t ship any, anyway) which is illegal in California. Very ice ladies and never a hassle. Sounds to me like a problem with the San Diego clerks, and that should be able to be worked out by simply requesting to talk to a supervisor, to see what the problem is.


#11

I don’t understand. Is there a CA law requiring all ammo sales to be face to face? If so, how do collectors handle that?

I had heard of such a law but i thought it was only in the discussion stages.

Ray


#12

I don’t know of such a California State Law, although having retired from the gun trade almost 13 years ago, I am not as up on even California law as I used to be. However, there are places in California with local laws prohibiting the delivery of ammunition by commercial carriers to anyone but FFL-licensed businesses (and I suppose police departments, as well). Among them are Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco, and I believe Santa Clara County (San Jose the major city there). In my county, San Mateo, it is perfectly legal for me to receive ammunition in UPS as far as I know. If it was not, UPS, who obey all laws including local ones, would not deliver clearly marked ORM-D Safety Cartridges Small arms packages.


#13

Thanks John. I was not aware of those regulations. Good to know in case someone in one of those places wants to trade or buy cartridges from me.

One thing that I’ve noticed lately, on UPS packages that I’ve been getting that contain cartridges, some senders are not using the ORM-D stickers. Not just individuals, but some of the bigger auction houses that sell collector cartridges. I don’t know why they would have stopped using the stickers and I’m not about to ask them since it’s their business, not mine. But it makes me wonder.

Anyone have the same experience? Or a guess as to why?

Ray


#14

I just got 2 big packages this week from 2 different dealers. Each has just one blue sticker on top, next to the shipping label. Perhaps the big accounts have different rules?


#15

We always had to have the ORM-D stickers on ammo packages at our store, and we were a fairly large account, especially among those shipping arms and ammunition. I inherited ORM-D stickers from both a jobber that closed, and our store, when it closed, so I put one on each side of the package, pretty much. I think only one is required, though. That’s all we put on packages at the store. I would suggest that those not using them are simply not complying with the regulations, although that is really a question UPS would probably have to answer if someone wants a truly accurate answer, and not just a “guess and a gosh,” which is what I just gave.


#16

See rila.org/sustainability/envi … 20FAQs.PDF


#17

Dennis

That has been all around the Internet, more than once. It has been updated, more than once. I believe the initial starting date was 2011 and it’s now been moved ahead to 2014 for Ground shipments. I have some of the new stickers and I was putting them on my packages more than a year ago. I no longer use them because most UPS hubs had no knowledge of the proposed changes. When I asked them about using the new stickers, I got a blank stare and a “what new stickers?” For a while I used two stickers, one of each, but now I’ve gone back to the ORM-D.

I now have my own on-line account and print out my own labels. When generating a label, it doesn’t ask for the contents, and I have a feeling that some guys are not putting an ORM-D sticker on the packages for that reason. But, I really don’t know. It’s all very confusing. Add into the mixture the clerks and hub supervisors who are anti-gun and anti-ammunition, and the current controversy, and it can only get worse.

Ray


#18

My interpretation is that the new stickers are legal for use now in ground shipment, but the mandatory date for their use is 1 Jan 2014. Many UPS counter folks may not know that, although their hazmat and management personnel certainly should.