US .30-06 APT dummies


#1

Found this…

cgi.ebay.ca/30-Bmg-30-06-cal-fun … 56437cbf58

or Ebay auction number - 370499436376

I would assume that someone got creative with paint…


#2

These cartridges are a good reason why I am going to give up buying on ebay or other “auction” sites. Between outright fraud, misidentification of goods, phony items like these cartridges where even if honest the seller is too ignorant of the subject to “catch them” and lost parcels thanks to a totally incompetent Postal Service - but then, why should they be different than all the other Government activities - my own loss ratio is astonishing.

I will say that there is one outside chance that these could be legitmate, if they were made for things like those big U.S.Navy cartridge Boards. They had colored-tip dummies on them. Chance of that being the case I would rate at about 10%.


#3

‘Love colors…even if fakes (as long as the price)(or gift) is right !

The mere fact a round is a not a “documented” military (arsenal) loading is enough, but often it involves a “bad” paint job, bad over layers, then adding to any and all…collating the correct head stamp, primer, primer annulus color, case mouth crimp, total weight…and maybe even x-ray

Photos attached of some pretty fakes…poor resolution as I enlarged it

PS…John…I’d say “very outside chance” (like 0%)…see you at SLICS !


#4

John and Pepper…

I have a U.S.Navy MK1 MOD 0 display board from 1944. All of the cartridges on the board are “inert” of course, but all appear exactly as do their loaded cousins. (I have this board for three reasons…it is very cool…I was a sailor once…AND!!..it has a .30-40 Krag Blank mounted on it). The steel cased .30-06 Dummy on the board is of the corrugated case type, but still appears exactly as it should, with no “extra” holes. So, I agree that the cartridges shown above in this thread are “bogus”…and, like Pepper said, pretty much 0 chance of having come from a USN board…

Randy


#5

Thanks guys - we used to have a Navy Board at the store, and I had one briefly, but it was too big for anyplace I could have hung it, so I gave it to friend who was a gun collector primarily, but was in the U.S. Navy for four years. He loved it. At any rate, it has been ten years or more since I have seen one of the boards, so wasn’t sure and thought I should hedge on my first comments.

I agree now with Pepper and Randy that there is about zero chance of these being anything original.


#6

I made an inquiry to the seller, His response follows.

I started seeing these 30-06 for the first time a few years ago, and they also have steel cases, the “F A 4” headstamp, and the holes. “F A” is Frankford Arsenal and the “4” designating 1944 ; same protocol as the 50 cal.

I have no reason to doubt their authenticity. However, the painting of the stripes to simulate APT I strongly suspect is current window dressing to make up intersting belts for display.
My other ebay listing has them without the painting if you want bare bones authenticity, or I also have a 21 round belt on another listing with the APT rounds every 5th link and the price per round is lower since you’re buying a larger quantity.
I’m not guarantee-ing authenticity, but my source and experience give me no reason to doubt they’re the real McCoy.
I can’t imagine why anyone but the US government would spend money to tool up to make steel 30-06 cases.
Thanks again for your inquiry!


#7

I guess the seller doesn’t understand the problem is with the painted tip, not with the cartridges. I have had .30-06 dummies of that pattern go through my hands. Not with the pretty stripes, however!


#8

I have seen paint on tips like that come out of the state of WA. HOWEVER they were re-manufactured tracers & such, being sold to shooters.

Hackley in Vol 2 pg 82 & 83 notes these were loaded into cares headstamped F A 41 and that the tip color was “black and red” so these also seem to be on backwards.

I don’t have one (an original) in my collection & think they must be quite scarce.

Punnett pg 203 also notes the backward color on fakes and notes several variations. He prefaces the segment with “extremely rare and fakes are not unusual”.