US Sporting ctges with wood container


Are all the US Sporting ctges with natural wood container (ex : 45-70 with hstp :S UMC H 45-70 or UMC 45 GOVT; 50-70 with hstp S UMC H 50-70) shot loads or some of them are multiballs ?



Hi JP.

Your post is not clear. Do you have these in your collection, are you buying these, are you selling these, do you want information on these or do you need values??? What is your question or comment. Also, a picture too?



hello Will,
I found a box with different paper or wood container ctges in my hobby room (where it is a mess!).
They are coming from my old collection.

Because most of them are not shotshells I want to know exactly what they are before I sell them.

I will make a picture of the different ctges.



I don’t know if the second one (starting from left to right) is a shot ctge or a mutiball because of the long container ?!



Does anybody know if the 45-70 with a long container is a regular shot ctge or is it something special ?



Hello jeanpierre,
It is my understanding that these long wood shot containers in .45-70 Government cases are just shot loads.
I don’t know if the boxes were labeled differently or not.
All the best,


thank you very much


The 45-70 “Rabbeth Patent” used a wood sabot containing a single subcaliber lead bullet. I don’t know if your round is one of these. Unfortunately I don’t have one so I’m not able to post a picture.
I’m sure some one out there has more knowledge about these than I do.



Hello All,
Here is an image of a Rabbeth Patent .45-70 Government cartridge. My notes say these were made by Winchester and are not very common.

Here is another you may be interested in. This is a Phoenix Metallic Cartridge Company multi-ball, inside primed .45-70 Government cartridge. I believe it has a paper covering.

Here is a Rem-UMC .45-70 Government that has a very long wooden shot container. I know nothing about it, but it sure has my curiosity going.

A drawing of a Merwin & Hulbert multi-ball loading.

All the best,


Based on about 20 years of collecting UMC items, once upon a time, I would suggest that all of the cartridges you show, with U.M.C. headstamps and the wood sabot, are factory loads, and loaded with shot. This includes the .50 Pistol cartridge with no headstamp, which is UMC. The exception to this is the .45-70 cartridge with the long and different looking sabot, which I believe is W. Stokes Kirk. I believe they supplied these loaded and also sold the empty wood sabots to hand loaders. The sabot on the .50-70 seems a bit long, perhaps it has moved upwardly somewhat. See U. S. Patent 395,897, Jan 8, 1889, Marcellus Hartley and Alfred J. Hobbs, both UMC guys…


I would possibly be interested in the 50-70


What is the total length of the 50-70 shot cartridge?


total length of :

50-70 : 61.5 mm
45 Govt: 65 mm
45-70 long container : 73 mm



Thanks for the dimensions; this was helpful.