Vanguard Outfitters V57-Prime 5.7x28


#1

Last week I stumbled across an auction listing for some 5.7x28 custom loads by Vanguard Outfitters out of Plant City, FL. The projectile is a machined solid copper which looks suspiciously like the Elite Ammunition “T6” load. I emailed & called the seller and learned that it is the son of the proprietor at Vanguard Outfitters who loads these and has the projectiles custom made (he didn’t say exactly who made them). He told me about the slight differences in his projectile vs the Elite T6, which visually all occur below the case neck, and also that his projectile was 34gr, as compared to lower grain weights from the T6 which were 25gr or 28gr.

The overall cartridge weight of the V57 is 103.5gr, as compared to the typical overall weight of an Elite T6 which is around 92.5gr to 96gr. Aside from the weight difference, the only visual difference I saw was that Vanguard is using gold-colord primers, while the T6 loads I have are silver-colored (they are both on FN brass). The bullets are not AP per-se (by BATFE definition) as they are 100% copper, but the shape, relative hardness, and velocity of both these types lend towards easily defeating soft body armor and many other obstacles.

At their link, Vanguard claims a velocity of 2150fps from a FiveseveN pistol, and 2825fps from the PS90 rifle:

http://www.vanguardoutfittersllc.com/catalog.php?category=104598

The listed velocities from Elite’s T6 are higher with their lighter projectile. Elite ammo (Jay) is one of our members here, and he might chime in. Some photos below show the cartridges, pulled bullets, box labels, etc. I show the Elite Ammo T6 25rd blue plastic box for comparison. The Vanguard box is a seemingly oversized box of 50rds.

In this photo the V57 bullet tip at left looks slightly bent… That was from me dropping it.


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#2

Interesting design, thank you for sharing.

  • Ole

#3

Ole, in Europe you may have noticed a slightly similar design from VBR in Belgium, who once had an experimental projectile in 5.7x28 which predates both of the loads mentioned above, however Rik Van Bruaene’s website at http://www.fsdip.com no longer shows or mentions the 5.7x28 design, only his 7.92x24mm project.


#4

Yes, when you point it out, I recognize where I have seen it before. I stumbled across those by chance while looking for 7,92x24,5 mm, actually. Pretty neat cartridge, would be something to have on the experimental cartridges shelf.

  • Ole

#5

Matt, are these projectiles meant to disintegrate on impact with semi hard surfaces?


#6

I don’t think that they were necessarily meant to disintegrate with a frangible effect. I had heard that the original idea was for enhanced penetration via very high velocity & shape, and to then break into multiple fragments upon penetrating a target. These probably would crumble into a few pieces if hitting a very hard target at an angle, but the pointed tip gets at least some of the bullet penetrating.

The T6 copper version came about after Barnes stopped manufacturing the “Banded Solid” .224 cal 45gr bullet, index #22425, which was the basis for earlier solid versions of bullets like this. After the BATFE said no to using the brass rifle projectiles in pistol caliber loads, copper became the next best thing. These are machined on programmable lathes with relative ease, as much as is the other new oddball stuff made from copper bar stock such as from Lehigh Defense, and the G2 R.I.P.


#7

It is a complete rip off of my design. His V57 is a copy of my older designed S5 bullet.

I have turned the matter over to my attorney.


#8

Panzermk2, could you elaborate on the purpose of the 2 deep groves then?


#9

The tip acts like a FMJ. Once through anything hard the bullet will start to cavitate and the stems break or bend causing damage like a HP.

In some instances when you shoot something hard like a steel plate the stems start to disintegrate as the tip hit’s the metal. Crazy ting happens. The tip decelerates but the main bod due to the stems shattering does not slow down as it passes through the hole made by the tip.


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#13

Very interesting variations and effects. Thank you for the additional images!
Was the enhanced wound-ballistics your initial intention?

Are these projectiles in use by any LE agency or military?


#14

Thanks Jay, I was wondering what the scoop was with him, and if he was in the wrong with what looked like a duplicate of yours. I guess the only difference in the grain weight. I was sort of suspect, in that after stumbling across them that they hadn’t been promoted in any of the 5.7x28 forums, or any forum for that matter.


#15

Elite no longer lists this load on their website. Vanguard hung up the phone on me when I asked the guy who answered if they were Vanguard Outfitters. Sounds like some interesting things are going on!

Cheers,
Lew


#16

[quote=“EOD”]Very interesting variations and effects. Thank you for the additional images!
Was the enhanced wound-ballistics your initial intention?

Are these projectiles in use by any LE agency or military?[/quote]

Yes I wanted a bullet that was light, would penetrate but also do wound damage.

Actually it’s the same weight as the S5 that it is a copy of.


#17

Thanks for clarifying Jay.

Lew - Did you call this number: (813) 310-1502 out of Plant City, Florida? If you do a Google search for “Vanguard Outfitters” you will get some other results which are not them, such as Vanguard Urban Outfitters, etc… When I first called them the guy said that they don’t do the ammo, they just list it for sale, and he referred me to another number.


#18

[quote=“DKConfiguration”]Thanks for clarifying Jay.

Lew - Did you call this number: (813) 310-1502 out of Plant City, Florida? If you do a Google search for “Vanguard Outfitters” you will get some other results which are not them, such as Vanguard Urban Outfitters, etc… When I first called them the guy said that they don’t do the ammo, they just list it for sale, and he referred me to another number.[/quote]

What other number did he give you? So fare they are ignoring my attorney.

OH and YES there are LEO units and individual offers using it. Beyond that I can’t comment.


#19

Panzermk2, thank you again! So it is basically a multi purpose bullet with good (I assume) wound ballistics and high penetration at the same time?
Did you develop these bullets also in other calibers than 5.7mm ?
And are you producing and loading complete cartridges (any caliber)?
What does the packing look like?
Is there a patent number on these bullets? That would be great to have for reference together with the images you provided.


#20

Exactly.

Yes but due to supply issues everyone has been dealing with the past 2 years when ever I had any supplys or capital for supplies it went to the 5.7x28 which is my bread and butter.
6.8 SPC,.308,6.5 Grendel and a few others. Here is a pic of the 6.8

Yes of course. Mostly 5.7 but I have done full power 10mm and some other custom rounds.

[quote=“EOD”]
What does the packing look like?[/quote]

Years ago we used die cut cardboard. Then we switched to 25 round blue plastic boxes. Those boxes where just discontinued so we temporarily are selling our 5.7in 50 rounds boxes, hence the price increase,. We are waiting on our new boxes which will be white cardboard with a plastic insert tray to hold the rounds.

[quote=“EOD”]
Is there a patent number on these bullets? That would be great to have for reference together with the images you provided.[/quote]

Just a copywrite. I am waiting on my provisional applications to be processed. Full patent costs money I don’t have now and the new provisional revamp in pricing has been a life saver.

Makes a mess of everything.
[color=#FF0000]
Elite Ammunition Steel Meat setup [/color]
http://youtu.be/zHjcSOfW2ew
[color=#FF0000]
Elite Ammunition Steel Meat Shoot [/color]
http://youtu.be/pzHFPXH-25s