Velodog Short or Francotte?

Base on Erlmeier-Brandt I had identified the following as a 5.6mm Velodog Short. A recent thread say the catrridge picture in Erlmeier-Brant was actually a 6mm Francotte.

Rim: 0.306" 7.78mm
Base: 0.250" 6.35mm
Case lenght: 0.712" 18.08mm
Cart. Lenght: 0.952 24.18mm
Bullet 0.224 5.43 mm (at case mouth)

Is this a Francotte? If so when was it made and by who?



(Sorrry about the poor photos my camera doesn’t do well with macros.)

Paul, your cartridge was originally thought to be the 5.75mm Velo-Dog Short. Now this cartridge is generally identified as the 6mm Francotte matching a 1912 SFM factory drawing 10150. SFM packet labels also confirm this fact. SFM evidently produced these with copper cases.

THere is also an RWS factory drawing dated 16.5.1921 shows this case type with an 18.5mm case and list it as “Francotte 18,25x5,71”. Production by RWS with brass cases is confirmed.

It is also similar to the 220 English CF Long (aka the 230 British Carbine Long or 22-4-30 Eley Long) but can be distinguished as follows:

  • It has a significantly wider case diameter of 6.4mm rather than 6.15mm.
  • It has a significantly wider rim diameter of 7.7mm rather than 7.2mm.
  • It has a case length closer to 17.6mm rather than 18.85mm.