Vintage 7.63/30 Mauser ammunition


#1

I


#2

I think that you could also have some Borchardt ammo boxes.Same case than the Mauser one,but different loading


#3

Pivi,

The only cartridges that I have that could possibly be Borchardt would be those marked DMK as the rest all have 7.63 or 30 mauser marked on them or the boxes they came in. I got the DM cartridges on a 10-round stripper clip at a gun show here locally where the guy had a ton of Broomhandle stuff but I guess they could be Borchardt?

John


#4

Your D.M.K. rounds could only be Borchardt if they have copper primer cups. DWM differentiated between Mauser and Borchardt by the primer cup. Mauser rounds have a brass cup.

Except that I see you have the box, the UMC 30 Cal headstamp is found on both Borchardt and Mauser. It is a myth that unheadstamp rounds with “U” on the primer are Borchardt and those with the 30 Cal. headstamp are Mauser. You cannot tell the .30 Mauser UMC rounds from the Borchardt UMC rounds without the box label, or at least in 40 years of collecting this claiber I have not discovered how.

Do you plan to collect all 7.63 x 25m/m Cartridges (Mauser, Borchardt, Tokarev, Mannlicher) or just those intended specifically for the Mauser C96 series of pistols?


#5

John,

Thank you for responding to this topic. How would one determine whether the primer cups were brass or copper? They appear to be the exactly the same color as the brass case, if that helps at all. These also have what looks to be a punch-style bullet crimp? Three punch marks on each

I plan on collecting the 7.63 Mauser cartridges and charger clips, boxes, etc., to go along with my on-going and troubling addiction to the Broomhandle pistol.

Are you aware of any other manufacture that sold these cartridges on the clips like the UMC example that I have? If not, were the clips advertised and sold separately by these various other manufacturers? I have several “DM” and one “BP” clip along with several unmarked clips that I’m trying to make sense of as well. I’m told that the DM clip was German and the BP clip was British - any American manufacturers mark their clips? The UMC clips are unmarked. Also, the DM clips have two different size and style marks indicating two separate lots?

Thanks again!

John


#6

Levallois–The .30 Mauser was first listed by U.M.C. in their 1900 catalog and continued until the merger with Remington Arms in 1911.

The “Dogbone” boxes started in 1926 and were being phased out around 1937. Some loads may have continued until the shutdown of civilian production in 1942. When resumed in 1946 they had new boxes and new Index Numbers. Before 1942 the number was “R113”. From 1946 to 1968 (the last year they are listed by Remington) they carried the number “0230”

The .30 Mauser was available as boxes of 50 or as boxes of 20 on clips (2 clips of 10 rounds) until at least 1923. I do not have the catalogs for 1924-1928, but in the 1929 catalog they are listed only as boxes of 50.

If you have any more questions about U.M.C or Remington-UMC, let me know.


#7

levallois,

Lots of variations here. Even the Chinese made ammo and clips. I have a brass stripper clip made in China. I also collect Brooms but only the Chinese ones!!!


#8

Ron - thanks for the information - of course, my dogbone box has part of the front torn off where i suspect the index number was - i can’t find it anywhere else. It would be nice to see a post merger rem-umc box with the clips.

Lew - everybody has their own set of addictions. I’m mostly interested in the broomies as they were used prior to WWI by the British in places like Egypt or the Boer War or by Americans in the American West (much harder to research).

Thanks for the replies!

John


#9

John–The Index number would have been in the Lower Left corner of the top panel.


#10

[quote=“levallois”]
Lew - everybody has their own set of addictions. I’m mostly interested in the broomies as they were used prior to WWI by the British in places like Egypt or the Boer War or by Americans in the American West (much harder to research).

Thanks for the replies!

John[/quote]
You may well have heard this, but I am told that Winston Churchill carried one in the Boer War, and fired it in anger more than once.


#11

Not quite sure how to answer your question about how to tell a copper primer cup from a brass primer cup. It is not always easy. Sometimes, brass cups take on a discoloration that makes them look like copper. Copper is reddish-orange in color, whereas brass is the color of your cases - a yellow-gold color. The difference in the DMK cups is clear to see if the cartridges aren’t totally corroded.

The three stab crimps can be found on any of the 7.63 x 25m/m “calibers”.

There are many, many more makes than what you have listed, and many of them packed the Mauser rounds in boxes with two twenty-round clips. In .30 Mauser alone, not counting Tokarev, Mannlicher and Borchardt, I have about 290 specimens, and my collection in that caliber is, renakly, mediocre. I used to collect the clips, but don’t anymore (I collected all pistol chargers, but it became just too much). I do collect the boxes, but not full. If I obtain a full one, with very few exceptions, I open it and dump all but one round. If with strippers, I keep on stripper and one cartridge, unless the strippers have some difference between them.

I know that gun collectors prefer full boxes. In Mauser, that can get expensive. Also, if you eve drop a full box on a hard surface, it will probably be ruined. A more-or-less empty box floats to the floor. Nothing is learned from a full box that is not learned from a box with one original round in it. Still, we all collect what we want. I have succumbed to saving Makarov ammo boxes full when I get them that way, because I collect the guns and all accessories for them. One day, hopefully, I will get over that and shoot up most of the ammo.

Am sorry to tell you, but if you collect the ammo to go with Mauser pistols, you definitely should collect the 9 x 25m/m Mauser cartridge, even if your likes run to British and American Frontier use - Kynoch made the 9mm Mauser cartridge and British dealers sold the pistols in that claiber as well. Some would argue that you should even collect 9m/m Para, since there are broomhandles in that claiber, but I don’t know of any commercial pistols in that caliber, and certainly none with a British or American connection.

I wish you good collecting. Compared to some calibers, .30 Mauser is a very small field and one would think an easy one to excel in, but unfortunately, there are dozens of specimens are that would rate at least as exceedingly scarce, so it IS a challenging field. I have been at it a lot of years, and my own collection is great fun for me, but it is not a top collection in that caliber. If you enjoy your collection, that is enough though. One need not try to “compete” within the collector fraternity. Collect what pleases you and what you can afford to collect, and have a good time doing it.


#12

Falcon,

Yes, I’ve heard this as well as his use of a broom in one of the final? cavalry charges at Omdurman with Kitchner’s army in 1898.

John


#13

John,

290 specimens !!! Holy-schmoly! It gives me something else to look for at gun shows. I really have no interest in the other 7.63 or 9mm rounds (or the pistols that shoot them) and with 290 plus examples of 7.63 Mauser cartridges to look for I can’t imagine not being busy at-it for the rest of my life.

The clips are intriguing. I wonder how many companies made them as opposed to just used them for the ammo that they made? Do you have any feel for the unmarked clips with the fire-blue steel springs? It seems to me that the few older clips that I own have the steel-colored springs.

Anyway, thanks for the information and advice!

John


#14

Although I accumulated them at one time (don’t anymore, although I still have a few for gneral samples in my collection), I never studied the Mauser clips as a student of chargers. I considered them only peripheral to my field, and never could really generate a big interest in them, although they certainly are worthy of interest. I don’t have a list of known Mauser Pistol Chargers, but I am sure some of our charger collectors on this site must have one.


#15

I fear that your charger with the fire blued steel spring might be for the Beretta M38 sub machine gun which was a 9mm chambering. I’ve had two lots of these out of Italy and that’s what they were described to me as by the sellers. Having said that, the Italian Navy did buy a small batch of C96s before 1914. Maybe the chargers for these provided the inspiration for the Beretta ones… who knows?

All the various Mauser C96 clips that I’ve seen over the years have had a plain or nickle plated steel spring.

Happy collecting, Peter


#16

Ron,

This box has no numbers at all at the lower left corner of the front panel but the lower right corner is torn off and missing. Nothing else that could be an index number anywhere on the box. Thanks!

John


#17

Peter,

That is an interesting observation about the clips with the fire-blue springs. They seem to work for the broom and are of a perfect size to fit into the charger slots - no wiggle at all. Thanks!

John


#18

[quote=“levallois”]Peter,

That is an interesting observation about the clips with the fire-blue springs. They seem to work for the broom and are of a perfect size to fit into the charger slots - no wiggle at all. Thanks!

John[/quote]

Dimensionally they are the same. Here is a Beretta one;

and here is a C96 one;

Spot the difference.

Peter


#19

Peter,

It’s probably no coincidence that a bunch of these Beretta brass and steel clips with blued springs are suddenly being offered for sale all over the place as C96 clips. I have some I got several years ago but they have the same characteristics.

What markings do you have on your legitimate C96 clips other than “DM”, “DWM”, and “BP?” Thanks!

John


#20

John–Could you post a picture of the Remington box? It would not hurt to post pictures of all the other boxes as well.